The Book Project - Discuss, Anticipate, Collaborate here

[Vicky0uk]

Oh yes some wyoming/alberta landscapes!!!

A perfect foil for the stories

I like the idea of photographs or artwork alongside the stories.

The film in many ways, was simple and minimalist, often leaving silences and glances, using visual images, to tell the tale. And then we had the humanity of the people involved set against the stark beauty of the landscapes

I'd like the book to echo all that in some way.

[Brokaholic]

I am interested in working with you guys. I don't have that much free time but for BBM and this forum well yes. I am not a journalist, writer or editor, I am actually a Physician but I would like to be involved so contact me anytime.

I agree we need explicit permission to use the material, however I think we should evaluate the entries we would like to use then try to contact each member to get explicit approval and perhaps give them an option to withhold information they deam too personal. A blanket implied permission would not work. The decision to grant or withhold permission is also dependent on the specific post especially for someone who has hundreds of posts some more personal than others.

[KittyHawk]

Hey, TexRob and Brokaholic! Welcome to this tiny little book thread! If you look throughout this thread, I think we've got the nucleus of a work group right here.

I'm delighted you've published before, TexROb., I think that may have been the key we were lacking before. I believe several of us may be in the category of inexperienced but willing to work! You all have brought up some important questions. Also, please see Brokebackbeauty's thoughts a few posts up the line.

My time on here is very limited today, but let's continue the discussion.
Be back later tonight.

KittyHawk

[frenchcda]

Frenchcda, I wonder if you might get more responses to your writing if you posted in the slash thread at http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=98.0. I'm not sure that category fits exactly but it might be worth a try.

I believe the few of us posting here are more interested in a book that at least starts with some of the personal stories here in the Forum.

Good luck with your writing,

KittyHawk

Thank you KittyHawk I posted only a small part of the short story to the recommended thread, partly due to its large content

[TexRob]

If you look throughout this thread, I think we've got the nucleus of a work group right here.
[...]  I believe several of us may be in the category of inexperienced but willing to work! You all have brought up some important questions. Also, please see Brokebackbeauty's thoughts a few posts up the line.

Eventually what needs to be decided is which gaps to fill in.  Since my experience lies in pre-Internet days, someone with web publishing experience would be invaluable if this is the route chosen to get the book into print.   

As Killersmom implied, the initial phase of the project would involve "grunt work," and it would be the most frustrating to execute.   This is the winnowing process, and everyone would have to be involved.  Cyoung has copy edit experience.  This will be particularly heipful during the layout of each draft, as well as throughout the entire process.  It would be good to identify who in has graphic design and art experience, because I suspect the book will eventually employ a lot of it.

The scope of the project is intimidating, which is why there hasn't been as much participation as in the ad compaigns.  However, as it takes shape the project will be broken into discrete elements, and everyone, regardless of experience, will have a clearer idea what to do.   For those who have expressed a willingness to work, it's important to decide how much time each person has to devote to this.  Many volunteers have only limited time and may be constrained by computer access.   

 

[TexRob]

Also, please see Brokebackbeauty's thoughts a few posts up the line.

Hi Brokebackbeauty --

If you are volunteering services, please give me some idea of how you would like to be involved.  Tell me which of the above roles you feel most qualified for ...

I can volunteer both as an editor and a writer.  I'm qualified for both roles, but the editing requires the most attention.

... describe any role that I may have overlooked ...

It may be helpful to have a project coordinator in charge of the overall execution -- someone to think about overall criteria and to act as a contact.  This person would need to facilitate contact between volunteers because nobody would be working under the same roof.

The project needs someone for graphic art and another for layout, possibly.  Someone with web publishing experience would be helpful if that's how the book is to be published. 

Let me know what you think of what I've described thus far for a general process and outline of book organization.

I raised several questions about it in a previous post.  Generally, these concern how the book will get published, how big the book should be, how many copies will be printed and so on.

The most effort will occur in the selection process.  The entire forum will have to be dealt with, and I suspect that because of its size, a severe pruning will have to take place.   As a result, the editors will have to contend with this process first, and it may have to take place in several steps.

As that process nears completion,  I'm thinking the copy editors will have to further reduce the posts due to the size restraints of the book.  How much of this is necessary won't be clear until the selection shows how much source material the editors are looking at.

The major problem a project like this faces is consistency.  It will be far better to have the chapters correspond to themes, not to threads.  The size of the book can be further reduced this way, and posts which are spread over several threads but which touch on a single topic can appear together.  Doing this will maintain the consistency and flow of the book.  Perhaps the organizers you suggested could help here.

I think the writing, too, will be a little more involved than just chapter intros.   Because the book is attempting to pull disjointed posts into a coherent picture, the writers will also have to help the reader segue from one idea to another between some posts.

I'm not sure if so many people will be working on the book as to require a separate editor's group.  The project coordinator would be able to help set general criteria and deal with specific issues as they come up.  The coordinator would also need to determine who has time to do what, who has what resources, who's available at any particular point, and so on.

Again, the book will need graphics and layout volunteers. This will require one or two people at least, and likely the attention of the coordinator as well.  This aspect of the book is possibly more important that the writing and editing.  There's enough overlap in skills so that a copy editor, for instance, could write the segues if no writer were available.  But graphics and layout are another matter.

[secretme]

Hello,

It might be rude to express myself here without a proper introduction. I'm preparing an introduction post, but I am so thrilled about this book project I had to post here right now !
So please, forgive me.

I want a BBM book, but what I don't get from the posts here is what kind of book you're aiming for ?
The first post says "analysis, characters, plot, themes... all the collective wisdom of this community" and then later on it seems people want "personal stories".
There's more than enough material for a book, and thinking of it, we could even make many books...

So I think we have to decide what the book is gonna be : the material we're gonna use and the message  we want from the book.

The material :
1. from the fans on this forum :
people's reactions to the movie
people's analysis of the movie
a mix of it
can we pick from other forums as well ? (there are great analysis on imdb as well)
2. from the internet and the media :
critiques of the movie (opinions/analysis), articles about the phenomenon

We could also contemplate doing interviews of scholars / social activists / movie professionnals to complement the book, but obviously we already have enough material here.


My ideas for the book(s) :

"The BBM guide" :
 - symbols (the characters names, the 4 elements, the colors, ...)
 - structure : parallels, black fades, camera moves
 - characters arcs (scenarist point of view? ), main themes, conversations BBM should start
 - what's on the screen and what's not ("Jack I swear",Jack bashed or not) :
you are the movie, the music / absence of it, open interpretation
all the characters defects : the real edge of BBM
 - classical references : broke-back, the bruddershaft, Enea an didon, the ministering angel,
garden of Eden....
Appendices :
 - timeline of their life (from the book/screenplay/movie) + timeline on BBM (moon)
 - list of locations : the tourist guide (lol) + road map from childress to riverton (some people are not good in geography and don't realise how long that road is...I didn't at first)
 - list of awards in the end

The BBM guide shows the layers/different angles to watch the movie, enriches it.
Anything that made people go "I didn't see it that way" or "oh I didn't notice that, I'll have to go see it again" should be
reported and belongs here
Maybe some of it would be on the DVD commentary. We should check with Focus Features, or wait for the DVD to come out maybe ?

"Why women love Brokeback Mountain too"
 - portraits of women : Alma, Alma Jr, Lureen, Cassie, Jack's mom and their point of view, how they brng love to the movie too.
 - the love story
 - it helps they're hunks : women like to watch men doing it too... (I am a women and I've read very interesting discussion about this specific point, and how women sexuality is relevant to BBM)
 - souvenirs of Brokeback Mountain : fan reactions to the movie / BBM legacy

It could just as well fit into a book with all perspectives...
I'm not trying to put women in a separate camp and take a distance from the gay themes.

"Brokeback Mountain : have you been up there ?"
 - reactions to the movie
 - the media coverage / zeitgeist
 - the Oscar's reactions : never seen before (here I'd like to explain to the ones who don't
LOVE brokeback, why we feel so personal about it, why reactions are so sharp -- it's not about why it lost, because if think it's and endless debate still going on)
 - the positive actions (thank you postcards, ad in variety and this book....), bringing people together, urge to gather to share the feelings, internet explosion
 - conclusion : the future : what stays with us from BBM (short responses from fans, Ang Lee's oscar speech...)

This is all about the fans : what we felt, who we are, what we're doing, and why.
It's all about love and thank you, personal views of the movie.

"no just a gay cowboy movie"
-- introduction :  their reason to bring BBM to life
Annie Proulx : rural homophobia, Ang Lee : wanted to know why it made him cry, Jake : greatest
love story...
we already have so many different views here (don't have to go too deep, just quotes from interviews).
-- the closet : Mendelson's article is perfect here.
-- why it's different from other so called "gay movies". Gay fans reactions here : how this is their movie, the masculine type vs. the feminine type, etc...
-- the love story : universal ? Ennis and Jack archetypes, how this is not only a gay movie
And then I get mixed up from here, but the book should end up with
-- the effect on people / the psychologie : a force of change, a mirror (fans reactions here again)

It's a mix between fans reactions and media coverage of the movie/phenomenon.
It's supposed to state BBM is a cultural phenomen, is different from what's been done before, and has impacted society.

"the BBM Advocate"
This forum is well moderated, but from my experience out there on the net, the fans have been facing constant attacks against BBM. This book would be a sort of summary of what we've been going through, as well as a support for people who want to defend their love of the movie. This could definitely boost up fans morale !
In my mind it would be any objection I've heard about BBM, from the silly ones to the harsh ones (not the harshest ones though) followed by the well written answers fans have come up to on the boards.
I've made a list of the objections I hear daily, and there's material enough, IMO.
Example of objections : "Jack is a sexual predator", "It's long and boring", " no love, only lust", and on and on..... and there are funny one as well like "Jack was mean to the sheep" (lol)

Of course instead of making these as different books, they could make chapters of a same book.
But that would a long book, don't you think ?
I think the material is HUGE, even if we only stick to this forum, and we need to know where we're going....


So these were my ideas for the next book on BBM.
Thank you for your time, and sorry about my poor English (I'm French).

Right now I only have internet access at work, but in a couple of weeks I should have it at home too.
I have plenty of time to dedicate to this project, so let me know if I can be part of it!

Cheers.

[secretme]

ok, I have a problem : I'm obsessing about that book project.

I  tumbled on that thread yesterday evening. I went home and thought : "Yes, I want a book on Brokeback Mountain". And then all the ideas and questions went pouring out of me and I spent the night scribbling things down.
I made a summary of my ideas in my precedent post, now here are my questions.

I noticed the first post is dated February 21st : that's a month ago.
Do we have a list of people committed to that project? Is there enough people at least to start something? can you put my name on that list?
Is there a list of the questions that need be addressed? Which ones should be addressed first ?

Making the book : my list of questions/points to be addressed
1. get people's consent - anything legal about copyright....
how do we keep track of the credits ?
what about using articles ?
if we go for movie analysis, what if we do credit the person, but someone
with the same ideas expressed somewhere else on the web, feels robbed ?
what happens then ?
Do we need some kind of green light from BBM makers ?(they may help us to get it published)?
2. pick the book's structure : who makes the decision ?
do we start from the material and try to make sense of it in a book ?
do we pick the book's structure first and then pick the right material for it?
3. how do we go through all the material ?
do we ask people to link to their favorite article, posts, etc.... ?
do we start from scratch, read it all and then decide ?
4. who makes it a 'real' book : read proof / mise en page / art work ?
5. get it published : who knows how to do that ?
Do we need to pay for that ? How much ? How do we get the money ?
Do we keep complete control over it ? What are the delays ?
Do we have to worry about it long before the book is actually finished?

6. Marketing it : will we have to do it ? how are we gonna do it then ? if not, will we have control
of the process ? Who will represent it as author, do we need a legal structure, sign agreements and contracts ?
7. What are we gonna do with the money it makes ? I say give it to charities... Which ones ?
How much for each ? Should we involve them in the process at some point ?
( marketing, promoting...)

9. When ? Do we want it to be as quick as possible (to stay in the movie's aftermath) or do we want it to be as good as possible and take as long as necessary ? How long is too long ?
What is the approximative delay ? Should we agree on deadlines ? What is the more optimistic ? What would be the perfect timing?
How long from the book finished to the book published ?


What I can do :
 - I will start referencing my favorite posts, articles, etc...
 - I'll keep thinking about what the book should be
 - I have a lot of time (internet access at home soon, but not right now)
I've never done anything close to writing/publishing a book, but I'm so enthusiast about it, I sure can be of some help.

So what do we do next ? What do I do next ?

P.S. : Hopefully I'll calm down a bit. I am aware I'm all other the place right now, sorry.

[secretme]

... just waiting to see how many volunteers come forth.
Hoping we'll have more interest once the ad design activity has subsided.

Hi Brokebackbeauty,

I was thinking, some people might be put away by the scope of this project, as you said.
Maybe if we break down the process into simple steps, we can get more people to join us.
(I'm not sure I'm quite clear  )

We should get this project started, and be ready to get it into full mode once the ad design activity has subsided.
I don't want people to be worn off after the ads, and then face such a huge amount of work.
That's why I think we should start to design those steps, prepare the battleplan...

I have been toying with the idea of acting as project coordinator but am not clear whether I have enough time available to do this efficiently.

Well maybe we could be joint-coordinators : I have plenty of time, but I can't be a project coordinator on my own as  I can let stress get over quite easily when I'm the only person in charge. And I've never done anything like that before.
Or does it really have to be only one person ?
What do you think ?


Have a nice day !

Well my day is over, so I go back home and I won't have internet access until Monday morning
That's my personal first step : fixing an internet access at home 

[cyoung]

As Killersmom implied, the initial phase of the project would involve "grunt work," and it would be the most frustrating to execute.   This is the winnowing process, and everyone would have to be involved.  Cyoung has copy edit experience.  This will be particularly heipful during the layout of each draft, as well as throughout the entire process.  It would be good to identify who in has graphic design and art experience, because I suspect the book will eventually employ a lot of it.

I would be happy to copyedit and proofread; it's what I do for a living.  I also have experience in layout (PageMaker).

Cara

[TexRob]

I would be happy to copyedit and proofread; it's what I do for a living.  I also have experience in layout (PageMaker). Cara

Hi Cara --

This would help with one of the major problems of the book.  I don't think people realize how much work goes into the layout.  I've worked with PageMaker in the past, though it has newer versions out now.  It's excellent software for this kind of job.   What lies in the future is to decide how to grab the posts and where to paste them as we all work to come up with a body of source material.

I did a quick layout of a thread page on WordPerfect (the only software I have on my computer) and came up with about 13   9" X 6.5"  pages per single page of thread posts.  If you work on the copyediting, you'll be able to par that down considerably, but I got a glimpse of what a sobering task lies ahead.  If you're the lead copyeditor, other writers and editors must be available to lend you a hand.  I think there will be enough volunteers to do that. 

I'm just thinking aloud at this point. It seems that for you to have the lead here would nail down one of the crucial tasks of the book.

[cyoung]

I would be happy to copyedit and proofread; it's what I do for a living.  I also have experience in layout (PageMaker). Cara

Hi Cara --

This would help with one of the major problems of the book.  I don't think people realize how much work goes into the layout.  I've worked with PageMaker in the past, though it has newer versions out now.  It's excellent software for this kind of job.   What lies in the future is to decide how to grab the posts and where to paste them as we all work to come up with a body of source material.

I did a quick layout of a thread page on WordPerfect (the only software I have on my computer) and came up with about 13   9" X 6.5"  pages per single page of thread posts.  If you work on the copyediting, you'll be able to par that down considerably, but I got a glimpse of what a sobering task lies ahead.  If you're the lead copyeditor, other writers and editors must be available to lend you a hand.  I think there will be enough volunteers to do that. 

I'm just thinking aloud at this point. It seems that for you to have the lead here would nail down one of the crucial tasks of the book.

This is exciting! I used to lay out a 54-page tabloid-size bimonthly newspaper for the National Science Teachers Association (worked in their production department). Did that for some 7+ years using various versions of PageMaker and a template that had been created by a designer. Before that, I copyedited and proofread for the same paper. I haven't used PageMaker in a few years, but I think it'd be fairly easy for me to get up to speed.

Now I just have to figure out how to juggle this project with my freelance work and family responsibilities, LOL! 

Cara

[cyoung]

Hey, I just went to Adobe.com and found out that I can download a tryout version of PageMaker 7.0. I think I've used this version before -- I laid out a student literary magazine for a community college a few years back.

Cara

[TexRob]

Now I just have to figure out how to juggle this project with my freelance work and family responsibilities

Hey, I just went to Adobe.com and found out that I can download a tryout version of PageMaker 7.0. I think I've used this version before -- I laid out a student literary magazine for a community college a few years back.

Cara

You must abandon your family and freelance dreams.  You have been assimilated. 

I think I'll have a look at the Adobe site.  If I can download PageMaker, I'd much rather be using it as well.

[cyoung]

You must abandon your family and freelance dreams.  You have been assimilated. 

Unfortunately (?), I've gotta keep freelancing because I need the $$$. But I'm very excited about this project and would find it very personally rewarding!

I think I'll have a look at the Adobe site.  If I can download PageMaker, I'd much rather be using it as well.

It's a 30-day trial.... downloading as I write....

Cara