Brokeback's Impact on Women

[killersmom]

Lynn, posted a good response and it disappeard into the internet hinterland somewhere. have to get ready for work, so will try to  recreate it later and try posting it again. Thanks again for this thread.
Linda (killersmom)

[jack]

just a drop in after a quick skim over what looks like some concentrated reading, but one point, with a twist, of course, jumped out at me
 
that old division.  women go for the romance, men wanna see some t and a.  okay, here's the twist.  virtually all the guys i isee talking, even the horndogs, are gushing over how beautiful the relationship is, and a lot(not all) of the women in here are lapping up the hot action (even if they aren't saying so too loud).

how's that for flippin it?       

[killersmom]

Yea, but there are a lot of us gals out there that are going after the ROMANCE (me for one)....the action is a definite plus, but ultimately what keeps me coming back is the absolute depth of the love and feelings these two have for each other, so a blanket statement that it is only the ACTION is not true. If it were just the action, I'd stand at attention and shout it from the roof tops...but thats just me

[sayitaintso]

 

women in here are lapping up the hot 

Not much lapping going on, but your point is made, and I agree. 

[aceygirl]

In addition to all the sentiments expressed so far (lyrical, personal, honest, etc.) I would add that actually, I always liked the idea of two cute guys getting it on. So I did initially approach BBM thinking, "oooh, Jake and Heath are gonna kiss!" Believe me, my BF kept teasing me about me being the female version of frat straight boys going gaga over the idea of two hot chicks.    It turned out to be so much more than that, though. Along with the heartwrenching, universal themes of love denied, lost and victmized by prejudice and a homophobic world, the movie portrayed the tragedies of the female characters so well, too. I've seen a lot of GLBT-themed movies, including many lesbian stories where the women have to hurt men by leaving them (i.e. "The Incredible Story Of Two Girls In Love.")

But maybe those didn't hit me as hard because I just perceive that homophobia toward male love in this society is one of the big last crimes that are still outright endorsed in the country. More so even than for two women (if only because of the shallow hetero-male "turn-on" by two women). We've come far enough to say that racism is wrong, sexism is wrong, etc. etc.--but it's still acceptable to be homophobic, even if it's not "Oh, we don't wanna kill them--we just won't let them have equal rights." Kinda like, "We don't wanna enslave black people anymore, but we don't want them eating at the same restaurants or going to the same schools."

I dunno. Just rambling. But this is the first movie in years and years that has affected me so deeply.

[jack]

women in here are lapping up the hot 

Not much lapping going on, but your point is made, and I agree. 

perhaps an exceedingly poor choice of words  :-[

[cyoung]

that old division.  women go for the romance, men wanna see some t and a.  okay, here's the twist.  virtually all the guys i isee talking, even the horndogs, are gushing over how beautiful the relationship is, and a lot(not all) of the women in here are lapping up the hot action (even if they aren't saying so too loud).
how's that for flippin it?       

As a hot-blooded female, I can't help but notice how gorgeous Heath & Jake are and respond to that. I do have a confession of sorts, though. The first love scene shocked me just a little (okay, more than just a little -- all I could think was "Ouch!" and "Wow, that was sudden"!), and at first I was uncomfortable with the kissing scenes. It was something I'd never seen before, but I figured my reaction was cultural brainwashing and I'd get past it, and I did.

The truly interesting thing is that I had EXTREMELY erotic dreams that night, LOL! And I can't wait to see the movie again so that I can consciously pick up on all the symbolism and nuances I missed the first time around.

Truly, though, it was the love story -- the loss, the longing, the regret -- that moved me the most. I haven't been so moved since seeing Phantom of the Opera last year. Brokeback is quickly become my second-favorite movie.

Cara

[terry]

  Lynn, I want to thank you for starting this thread.  But I'm also irked at you!  I just got back from seeing BBM for the fourth time and just when I thought I could truly be happy for the characters, you start this thread and now I'm blubbering like a kid.  Thanks a lot! [grin].  There were so many beautiful posts here mine is dull compared to them.  But getting to the point here, I also think that many women appreciate the emotional heavy lifting that male characters in the movies rarely do.  This is a year that men truly got emotional on film, not just in BBM.  There was a nice article about this on msnbc a while back.  Great story.  Now if you all excuse me I'm gonna try and heat up my dinner without burning down my apartment because my eyes have started to water again. 

[DeeGilles]

There is religious magic in the way an actor disappears in his own person and becomes someone else...  A woman watching this artistic transformation observes it carefully and learns, as if by modeling, to transform herself into the same character -- yet this imaginative capacity is the human birthright.  She becomes this very same passionate man, 'puts herself into' both him and Jack, living all too briefly in what seems a fuller more authentic way.

Other viewers of the film around her lose their normal defined characters, perhaps even genders and become Ennis too, or Jack, or perhaps Alma.  Later, those viewers who have been especially affected are able to relive these moments totally in their imaginations, at will or almost against their will, just as Heath learns to let his own identity trickle away unresisted and be replaced by that of Ennis.  In the story these viewers are all imagining together it is Jack who taught Ennis the love he never expected to feel, never knew he had available to draw on from his parents.  Later, Ennis comes up behind Jack and holds him tenderly.  He hums a little tune his mother used to sing.  The actor Jake has disappeared and become Jack, who has recreated this scene in his memory.  It is Jack who created and nurtured the love which allows Ennis to remember and connect with this almost-forgotten mother's love.  Ennis becomes, for a moment, his own mother, holding and nurturing Jack as if he were his own younger self, but also holding and loving the man who taught him to love, the only man he himself ever loves.  A woman, a viewer of the film, joins this group, becomes in different ways the mother, Jack and Ennis -- the characters and times are different but the love is one. 

Your words are incredibly perceptive and insightul.  There truly is something sacred about the art of acting, and its power to move another human soul.  What this film holds up for us to view is the utter beauty and perfection of love.  What else is there to life, really?

[Nicole]

Lynn, thank you so much for starting this thread. You guys have pretty much summed up the way I feel, but in a much more articulate way that I could've done it. I will now stand by the sidelines and give you the podium.

[helen_uk]

Hi. 

I went to see the film last night, and it left me feeling very hollow inside, like someone had punched me in the gut.  The enormity of it didn't reach me till today, and I've been crying on and off for hours now!

What has really affected me is the sheer pointlessness of those twenty years they spent living half-lives.  Neither of them was happy, and Ennis wouldn't "go for it" because he was sure it would get them killed.  So, twenty years of mostly misery, interspersed with those brief moments of love, and Jack gets killed anyway.  That is the thing which has affected me the most.

It's helped me realise that you've GOT to go out and live life as you really want to, to take the risks.  Because if you don't, and remain unfulfilled the things you fear the most may happen anyway.

[lynn]

It's helped me realise that you've GOT to go out and live life as you really want to, to take the risks.  Because if you don't, and remain unfulfilled the things you fear the most may happen anyway.

Hi Helen,

Thanks for joining us! You've summed up what hits home for so many of us, even above and beyond the love story itself: fear of regretting missed opportunities.

[sherryfair]

I am posting on the new board for the first time. (I did post briefly on the old board, after seeing BBM on the Monday after it opened, in an East Village theatre.) I have been lurking, reading & hoping my BBM obsession would go away, but it has not. I'm another woman who was strongly affected by this movie.

The article by Meghan Daum in the LA Times has come closest to explaining my feelings for this movie.

Anyway, since seeing BBM that first time, I have talked up this movie with everyone I've spoken to -- particularly women in the many reading groups and book forums that I belong to. Many of us who've seen the movie are having a strong response. Though many say it is "depressing" -- I believe because they are used to the happily-ever-after ending offered within Romance genre reading -- all say that they "keep thinking about it" and "can't get it out of their minds" afterward. That's how it's been for me. Except I disagree about the "depressing" part. I don't equate "sad" with "depressing." And I believe that the movie is curiously inspirational in the way it makes one review one's life and choices.

I may not post a whole lot here, now that I have introduced myself, but I did want to get on the board at least this once, to thank Dave Cullen very much for all he's done ... as well as all the moderators here who have kept the discussions at such a high level, so consistently -- though I love the occasional lascivious wink, and the squeeing about Jake! -- adding such great, informative information. (I cannot believe how much I've learned about the movie business, box office like BoxOfficeMojo, film discussion sites like Oscarwatch.)

Thanks everyone here, this has been such fascinating reading, every day ... No, I will admit the extent of my obsession ... Every hour!

[killersmom]

Hi. 

I went to see the film last night, and it left me feeling very hollow inside, like someone had punched me in the gut.  The enormity of it didn't reach me till today, and I've been crying on and off for hours now!

What has really affected me is the sheer pointlessness of those twenty years they spent living half-lives.  Neither of them was happy, and Ennis wouldn't "go for it" because he was sure it would get them killed.  So, twenty years of mostly misery, interspersed with those brief moments of love, and Jack gets killed anyway.  That is the thing which has affected me the most.

It's helped me realize that you've GOT to go out and live life as you really want to, to take the risks.  Because if you don't, and remain unfulfilled the things you fear the most may happen anyway.

Hi back Helen 
You have put so well the gut wrenching reaction of first time viewers. I have seen it 4 times (last night in fact) and you know the gut wrenching just doesn't go away. Every time you go there are more subtle nuances not picked up on in previous showings. It takes me a day or two to deal with the grieving(for lack of a better word) and get back on an even keel. But you know that does not prevent me from seeing it again.

Life does have to be lived with risks and all the inherent consequences that may accompany these risks, or in the end one realizes that one has not lived at all.

[WLAGuy]

This isnt going to be as fantasic a post as the rest of you have written.....

My posting isn't going to be earth shattering either.

I'm just going to jump in here for a moment and say the following to posters like Melio and killersmom, who feel their posts may not be as impressive as some of the others on here:

Of the posts on this board that have moved me to tears and have stayed with me, I can safely say that without exception, they have not been the posts that were scholarly and complicated or expressed "deep" thoughts (whatever those are) or were even spelled perfectly.  Instead they were the posts that came straight from the heart.  Please don't ever think what you have to say is any less powerful or less moving than anyone else's contribution.  You'd be surprised at the number of people who will be moved by and connect with what you have to say, even if they may never say it.