News and Current Events - 2012

[CellarDweller115]

More on Mitt: Apparently David Cameron is furious, Nick Clegg is not best pleased, Romney can't remember Ed Milliband's name, and the Mayor of London, Boris Johnson is spitting chips.
Seem Mitt has pretty comprehensively p***** everyone off!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/26/mitt-romney-olympics-blunder 

[CellarDweller115]

[fritzkep]

    

Whup 'im, Betty!

[brokebacktom]

I know how she feels. To bad he's here to stay.

[doodler]

 I believe they need photo ID's and social security cards, and, lacking the first, current utility bills.  But usually these are already a matter of government record, and, usually, done over a period of time.
  I wanted to refer back to an earlier post you made, Doodler, about how hard it was to get your electricity turned on.  That was a commercial activity.

The right to vote is neither a commercial activity or an entitlement.  It is a right. And impediments to this right are WRONG and against the foundations of our system of government.

I didn't think of it as hard to get the electricity turned on. I was just saying here we need a lot of documentation for it... way more than for the phone company. What most of the urban world would find really distressing is we have to go into the electrical company's office which is in another city in another county, probably 35-40 miles away... with no public transportation. And yet, I don't know of anyone who is living without electricity around here and haven't heard any complaints from the newbies who are always moving in.

And if the poor were able to prove who they were and their economic status in order to get food stamps and whatever else, surely it is no big deal to give out the same info, using the same records, as before.

[Tony_]

And if the poor were able to prove who they were and their economic status in order to get food stamps and whatever else, surely it is no big deal to give out the same info, using the same records, as before.

  Using the same records as before?  The new voter ID laws require a state issued photo ID.  As I said once before, when I had let my driver's license lapse, the amount of documentation necessary to renew (and also it would have been the same to get a State photo ID) had changed.  Owing to 9/11, they would not even accept the earlier license as one of ther requirements !
 Birth certificate, utility bills, social security card....on and on including even school records (thank God, I only went to elementary and high school around here).  It took a week.  I accepted the mindless hassle because I understood that driver's licenses were a first line of defense.
 But voting? I've always had a registration card (and now, of course, photo ID).  That's not good enough in those states.  And no, it's not about the food stamp people.  The largest groups are those who do not own a car or do not drive.  And that, very often, is a senior citizen or someone who uses public transportation.
 Again, we know these bills were passed entirely by Republican legislatures.  We have instances of some of them crowing that this will give the election to Romney.  The prejudice and intention is clear.  Those who are hassled to death over the right to vote, tend strongly to be Democratic voters, in those states.

We have enough troubles on our hands. The 2000 election was accepted as a fluke.  The skewing, openly identified in advance, of the 2012 election, will risk civil disorder, at worst, and, at best, a lack of legitimacy.  But so deep has been the decline, the strategists are willing to risk that, or anything else to rig the election in their favor.  And yes, I do know people from those categories, and they do feel intimidated and confused.  This is ugly.

[doodler]

I meant the same documents would be good enough for issuing a state id. Indiana has had a photo id law for several years and seems to be handling it just fine. And voting is not a right or certain criminals would be allowed to do it. It is a privilege and there are certain responsibilities that go along with it.

I had to renew my license a few years back when I turned 65. But it was a renewal. Took maybe a half hour. They did fingerprints which I'd never had (for a driver's license) before. I moved up here before 911 so I don't know if fingerprinting was in response to that or just everybody is doing it. This time next year I have to renew again... they keep a tighter rein on us old folks. One of my sons moved here almost 4 years ago, exchanged his FL license for a TN even though he had lived in GA for about 8 years since leaving FL. No unusual requests for proof of id.

Honestly, Tony, maybe it's just VA. They seem to have a lot of weird laws both state and local.

And maybe ALL states should start issuing photo ids to people they are supporting or giving public aid to. It might cut down on some real fraud in the food stamp and health care areas. How difficult can that be? They have all the documentation right there in front of them. Take a picture, put it through the laminator and you're good to go. People SHOULD be able to prove who they are if only to prove who they're NOT.

[huntinbuddy]

[doodler]

As luck would have it, I was putting clean newspaper down for the pups this morning and came across an AP article on voter ID laws.
About VA, it says
"Virginia had a rule allowing voters without proper ID to sign an identity statement; a false claim could make them subject to felony punishment. Under a new law awaiting final approval from the Justice Department, voters who do not bring proper ID, which doesn't necessarily have to have a photo, must use a temporary ballot and later provide ID to the local election board."

One of the biggest problems, the article says, is misinformation not just with the general public but with election officials, especially poll workers.

Sounds like education is the answer and as with all new rules, will take a little time to shake out.

[doodler]

And in other news

Man who lost hand to alligator charged with unlawful feeding
By Dylan Stableford, Yahoo! News

(Collier County Sheriff's Office)

Talk about adding insult to injury: An Everglades tour guide who lost his hand to an alligator last month was arrested over the weekend, charged with unlawful alligator feeding.

Wallace Weatherholt, a 63-year-old airboat captain, was leading a tour on June 12 when the group encountered a 9-foot alligator. Passengers told the Fort Myers News-Press that Weatherholt "hung a fish over the side of the boat and had his hand at the water's surface when the alligator attacked."

Wildlife officials then tracked and killed the alligator, according to the paper. They "retrieved Weatherholt's hand from its stomach, but doctors were unable to reattach it."

Weatherholt was charged with unlawful feeding, a second-degree misdemeanor, on Friday. He posted $1,000 and was released from Collier County Jail.

Feeding alligators is illegal in the state of Florida, where at least 19 people have been cited in the last two years, according to West Palm Beach's WPTV. The charges carry a fine of up to $500 and possible jail time.

[Lyle (Mooska)]

This whole discussion of "voter ID laws" is maddening because--first--it ISN'T EVEN AN ISSUE.  IT ISN'T EVEN A PROBLEM!

It would be different if there was a lot of individual voter fraud, but WHERE is all this election altering voter fraud? Studies show that there are more reported sightings of UFO's each year than there are of voter fraud instances!

Time and money and effort are being wasted on something that isn't a problem.
It doesn't matter whether you have a voter ID or don't have one. The Republicans have gotten people to wonder "why shouldn't there be ID to vote in a U.S. election and if you're against that what are you hiding or what are you afraid of?" Raising the unsubstantiated specter of mass voter fraud suits a particular policy agenda. They have manufactured an issue to suppress LEGAL voter turnout. If you're fine with that then own up to it, but, as Judge Judy likes to say, "don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining."

What we have from many about this issue is fallacy, ignorance, prejudice, preconceived notions, opinions devoid of data, assertions which contradict actual facts, and just plain irrational thinking. The truth is that fraud by individual voters is both irrational and extremely rare. Many vivid anecdotes of purported voter fraud have been proven false or do not demonstrate fraud. Voter fraud is often conflated with other forms of election misconduct (like machine tampering and the like).

I repeat, "Fraud by individual voters is both irrational and extremely rare." Most citizens who take the time to vote offer their legitimate signatures and sworn oaths with the gravitas that this hard-won civic right deserves. Even for the few who view voting merely as a means to an end, however, voter fraud is a singularly foolish way to attempt to win an election. Each act of voter fraud risks five years in prison and a $10,000 fine - but yields at most one incremental vote. The single vote is simply not worth the price. It doesn't make any sense.  And another thing Judge Judy is fond of saying is, "If it doesn't make sense, it's not true."

Because voter fraud is essentially irrational, it is not surprising that no credible evidence suggests a voter fraud epidemic. There is no documented wave or trend of individuals voting multiple times, voting as someone else, or voting despite knowing that they are ineligible. Evidence from the microscopically scrutinized 2004 gubernatorial election in Washington State actually reveals just the opposite: though voter fraud does happen, it happens approximately 0.0009% of the time. The similarly closely-analyzed 2004 election in Ohio revealed a voter fraud rate of 0.00004%. National Weather Service data shows that Americans are struck by lightning about as often.

Of course I am not in favor of non-U.S. citizens voting in our elections or legal citizens breaking voting laws. I think you should have to give proper documentation when you register to vote and receive a voter ID card. I am in favor of paper trail ballots in electronic voting, for instance, so mischief with electronic voting machines cannot happen, things like that. But I don't favor laws that prevent anyone from voting who is eligible, which is what most of these new laws do, far out-weighing any massive illegal voting that Republicans would like to scare you with and would like you to believe is happening.  Those statistics I quoted tell a different story.

As for Pennsylvania's voting law mentioned in a previous post. So much for that states own arguments for their new law. The Republican lawmakers in Pennsylvania can't even come up with any:

A lawsuit filed against Pennsylvania's voter ID law is set to go to trial this Wednesday. The Defendants made a major concession just days ahead of the start of the trial. In a stipulation agreement, state officials conceded that they had no evidence of prior in-person voter fraud, or even any reason to believe that such crimes would occur with more frequency if a voter ID law wasn't in effect. "There have been no investigations or prosecutions of in-person voter fraud in Penn.; and the parties do not have direct personal knowledge of any such investigations or prosecutions in other states,” the statement reads. According to the agreement, the state “will not offer any evidence in this action that in-person voter fraud has in fact occurred in Pennsylvania and elsewhere,” nor will it offer evidence that in-person voter fraud is likely to occur in the ABSENCE of the Photo ID law.

The party of "less Government, less rules and less regulations" is happy to disregard that mantra when it comes to making up new voter ID laws, but try to even discuss laws pertaining to guns or banning assault rifles and the silence is as deafening as the silence after each massacre caused by their inaction. 

[fritzkep]

Less government only when it suits their agenda. Otherwise the more government intrusion, the better.

Ronald Reagan's ghost must be sad. Barry Goldwater's beside himself.

[doodler]

This whole discussion of "voter ID laws" is maddening because--first--it ISN'T EVEN AN ISSUE.  IT ISN'T EVEN A PROBLEM!

Well, don't know where you get your information but voter ID laws ARE an issue and apparently a problem for a lot of people in a lot of states.

Voter FRAUD may not be a problem. But the only time I see that word in any discussion is when people say it is what Republicans claim is the issue that needs to be addressed and only a change in voting laws will do that.

Personally, I never thought there was much of a problem with voter fraud and I don't care about whatever small amount of it that occurs.

I do support people having to provide some form of id when they vote.

[Lyle (Mooska)]

This whole discussion of "voter ID laws" is maddening because--first--it ISN'T EVEN AN ISSUE.  IT ISN'T EVEN A PROBLEM!

Well, don't know where you get your information but voter ID laws ARE an issue and apparently a problem for a lot of people in a lot of states.

Voter FRAUD may not be a problem. But the only time I see that word in any discussion is when people say it is what Republicans claim is the issue that needs to be addressed and only a change in voting laws will do that.

Personally, I never thought there was much of a problem with voter fraud and I don't care about whatever small amount of it that occurs.

I do support people having to provide some form of id when they vote.

To be clear perhaps I should've written This whole discussion of "voter ID laws" is maddening because--first--it ISN'T EVEN AN ISSUE THAT NEEDS ADDRESSING.  IT ISN'T EVEN A PROBLEM THAT NEEDS ADDRESSING! Of course it's an issue now that they're trying to pass unnecessary voter ID laws and legislation, but aren't you talking out of both sides of your mouth? If there is not much of a problem and you don't care about the small amount of it that occurs, then why have any voter ID laws to correct such a small amount of it--laws that actually cause more legal voters NOT to vote? Laws that PA even has no defense in court for? UNLESS--that's what you want, less people voting.

[doodler]

I don't care who votes or who they vote for. It really doesn't matter which party is in power as each has to deal with whatever has come before and neither makes any real difference over the long haul.

I don't understand why there is such an uproar over identifying yourself when you vote. You have to have ID to get a library book, buy a pack of cigarettes or a can of beer, cash a check, use food stamps, get health care. What IS the big deal?

I think people SHOULD carry ID. All people. Everyone should be able to prove who they are and who they are not. I'm in favor of a national ID card. I wouldn't have a problem with a requirement for individual DNA being on file.

And Lyle, your "This whole discussion of "voter ID laws" is maddening because--first--it ISN'T EVEN AN ISSUE.  IT ISN'T EVEN A PROBLEM!" is a direct cut and paste from you post. It says nothing about "why the voter ID laws are now occurring.", which is another cut and paste.