Why am I gay? -- Nature? Nurture? (Straights welcome, too)

[flyingTom]

I was born gay.  I have always been this way.

I spent much time in denial, and didn't admit it to myself and others until I was about to turn 28.  Looking back there were obvious signs that I should've seen and listened to.

I was not attracted to girls at all.  When I did date some girls, it was always pretty awkward.  I can remember watching tv and thinking, "he's good looking" or things like that about various actors, but never did that with actresses. 

I'm just glad that I finally came out, and I'm on the right track now.

I can very much relate to what you describe above. I never dated girls because I just didn't feel any attraction towards them. However, I felt attracted to men but I suppressed that feeling for a very long time. More than 10 years ago, I fell in love with a man during the first two years in college. I was courageous enough to tell him how I felt but he never reciprocated the love I felt for him. For a long time, I thought that he was straight and was just experimenting with his own sexualtiy. The relationship ended before it had even begun.

I do believe that we are born gay. Genetics may play an important role but it's important to look at what happens in the womb and which of our genes are turned on and off. If physical attraction happens without involving conscious thought, then it is preprogrammed into us and not "learned" or "taught". If we ever figure out what makes a person homosexual, I fear that people might feel compelled to develop a "cure" rather than accept and celebrate the diversity of life.

Just some thoughts. I'm curious about the whole subject and will try to learn more about it.

After so many years, I'm finally coming around to accept who I am. Looking back, there were many signs in my life of my homosexuality but I chose to ignore them.

-Tom

[beans]

I have met some people who don't like "Brokeback Mountain" because they think that it is only about two men cheating on their wives and trying to get away with it. I then steer the discussion to their perception of homosexuality and am surprised to find out that there are people who still think that sexuality is a choice, homosexuality is a deviant behavior, and people deliberately choose to be gay.

Thus, this piece by CBS 60 Minutes is timely.

If science ever uncovers the cause of homosexuality, I wonder and shudder, about its effects on the pro-life/choice abortion issue.

Anyone see the Lesley Stahl segment on 60 Minutes last night? (March 12, 2006)

It explored advancing scientific theories of what makes us gay. Utterly, utterly fascinating!  The piece gave me, personally, great insight into the question  -- I fit the profiles to a T.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/09/60minutes/main1385230.shtml
[read/watch it here]

[estefue]

... and am surprised to find out that there are people who still think that sexuality is a choice, homosexuality is a deviant behavior, and people deliberately choose tobe gay.

Unfortunately there's far too many of those people and many of us are not surprised.

[Dixon]

 With regards to the 'helper' theory of why we might survive in the gene pool; Bare-in-mind that an evolutionary advantage only has to be a *tiny* advantage. Evolution has millions of years to work over, so even if something only produces (or helps the survival of) one extra offspring every 10 generations (say), over time that's enough. I'm not saying the 'helper' theory is right, just that it shouldn't be dismissed just because the perceived  advantage is small.


From CellarDweller115;"If we ever figure out what makes a person homosexual, I fear that people might feel compelled to develop a "cure" rather than accept and celebrate the diversity of life."

 I agree 100%. Given the complexities of the way genes interact and express I can't see a 'cure' being developed any time soon.


From Beans; "If science ever uncovers the cause of homosexuality, I wonder and shudder, about its effects on the pro-life/choice abortion issue."

 Me too. In India, female foetuses are more likely to be aborted than males. Simply because they are female. I dread to think what would happen if a test were developed for gayness. Incase you don't believe me; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/828180.stm I can't help sniggering that the religious-right would be unable to abort their gay babies due to their 'pro-life' stance. But then I'm bad

[adamblast]

Indeed, some people by definition *cannot* accept that homosexuality is anything other than a conscious choice -- after all, that's what being *sinful* is all about: deciding to do wrong... 

Their model crumbles if being gay is a normal part of one's identity.

[sactopete]

Indeed, some people by definition *cannot* accept that homosexuality is anything other than a conscious choice -- after all, that's what being *sinful* is all about: deciding to do wrong... 

Their model crumbles if being gay is a normal part of one's identity.

Adam, doesn't the Christian need for homosexuality to be a choice go deeper?  If its natural, then in a Christian cosmology that would mean a whole class of people (us) were created only to be condemned to damnation.  Does that sound like something an all loving god would do?  It brings God's ethics into question.  Then again, it does sound kind of Calvinist ...

[borebox]

I believe that basically it is a developmental issue that happens in the womb.  In my family I have three older brothers and 2 older sisters and a younger sister, 7 altogether.  The 5th and sixth child are gay that means that me(Mark) and a brother(Patrick) who is 6 years older are the gay ones.  Growing up in the 1950's and 60's and a violent alcoholic home I did not know that my older brother was gay until I was 18.  I was a freshman in college when my mother called me to tell me that my older brother was gay and was wondering what could be done(I was in psychology). Even at that point theories were pointing to a developmental explanation for the orientation.  It was also the 70's that the American Psychiatric Association delisted homosexuality as an illness requiring treatment.  I personally belive that at a critical point in the mothers womb when the developing  Zygote should be bathed in male hormones it is bathed in female hormones.

[adamblast]

Adam, doesn't the Christian need for homosexuality to be a choice go deeper?  If its natural, then in a Christian cosmology that would mean a whole class of people (us) were created only to be condemned to damnation.  Does that sound like something an all loving god would do?  It brings God's ethics into question.  Then again, it does sound kind of Calvinist ...

Yep... 

9th & 10th grade: I sincerely believed that God would change me if I prayed hard enough. 

11th & 12th:  I sincerely believed God had turned his back on me--I was going to hell and there was nothing I could do about it. 

[Blue]

60 Minutes: Gay or Straight is now available for viewing on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzzqrqAkxmk&search=60%20minutes

[fritzkep]

  when the human genome is completely mapped and the gay genes are identified, i wonder how some couples will act when they are told "congratulations, you are having a healthy gay boy".

As much as I hate to say it, if such a gene or gene grouping were discovered, a lot of religious groups would suddenly lose their absolute objection to the idea of abortion. I say this with deep regret. 

My partner suggests that if a way were discovered to determine sexual orientation genetically, abortion would then become a sacrament!   

[dog.day.king]

As he was talking, I was thinking about my childhood and mentioned that my interactions with mom dad were pretty different from his ... that I always had felt a closeness with my mother and couldn't really relate to my dad in my younger years. I felt therefore, that I was somehow treated differently.  He felt that to large degree, it had less to do with my relationships with them and more to do with my genetic disposition.  My sister in law mostly just listened and smiled (not sure what the smile was about) but did pose the question of birth order?  She wondered if that had any influence.

I think most likely, it's a combination of genetics and our relationships with our folks ... who we relate to more or feel some kind of affinity with.

Has it occured to you that your genetics influenced the quality of your relationship with your parents?

I think that because I was gay (genetically) that I identified more with my mother than my father and became closer to her than him as a result. My parents responded accordingly.

[SquallCloud]

What I've identified as in my life has changed over the years but I've always been attracted to both males and females. I thought it was normal then I realized "No, it's just you, Crystal." I had to always avert my eyes during changing for gym but really I wanted to see Oh how I wanted to see. My first homosexual attraction was with my mother's friend... I'm not sure if they were lovers at some point. My mom was lesbian identified when she met my dad. I remember being in the bed with my mom, her friend was visiting and she had to wear one of my mom's threadbare nightgowns and I kept trying to lift the covers and look at the sillouete of her body.

My sis says she really likes being in the company of women and wishes she could be a lesbian cause she likes and trusts women way more but she has zero sexual attraction to women. She is curious as to how that must be. Conversely, I don't know what it means not to have urges for women and men. It's odd to me that the vast majority of folk don't look at their same gender. It's equally perplexing that a percentage of folk only look at their own gender. I guess that's why the SNIT with Jake and Heath and the acting and whatnot, I have a hard time believing that no one got aroused. On an academic level I know there are those who just are not attracted to the same sex but I have no frame of reference. If a cute girl and I were in a scene simulating intimacy I'm pretty sure I'd be at least a little aroused unless I hated her or she smelled bad.

[dog.day.king]

Adam, doesn't the Christian need for homosexuality to be a choice go deeper?  If its natural, then in a Christian cosmology that would mean a whole class of people (us) were created only to be condemned to damnation.  Does that sound like something an all loving god would do?  It brings God's ethics into question.  Then again, it does sound kind of Calvinist ...

Yep... 

9th & 10th grade: I sincerely believed that God would change me if I prayed hard enough. 

11th & 12th:  I sincerely believed God had turned his back on me--I was going to hell and there was nothing I could do about it. 

Which is why the evangelicals are digging in  their  heels against any change in acceptance. Their biblical-centered viewpoint will collapse with this admission.

Does (their) God create a condition that is natural only to condem it as unnatural?

If this doesn't make sense then either the Bible doesn't make sense or its interpretation has been off for centuries. Truth then, isn't absolute, thus calling into question many other issues.
 
It's Galileo all over again.


This is the fundamentalist and Catholic dilemma. Other denominations had settled this long ago.

[SquallCloud]

Also, I think the asexuals should run the world. My mind boggles at the thought of how productive I could be without a libido. Failing that, I think that the asexuals should be invited into our initials. Instead of LBGT, we could be BLAGT or GLABT or change the "gay" to homosexual which woud cover both male and femle and then the whole works could be HABT, pronounced "habit"or maybe BATH.. It's just nice to have a vowel in the mix.

[samsung]

Sometimes I've WANTED to be gay. Here in NYC, it seems like they have such a close-knit wondeful family-like culture. I tell this to gay people and they laugh.

You bet they do!  Hate to burst your bubble, but you're seduced by surface appearance.  For many of us, the urban, upscale gay "culture" is a vicious, class-stratified, narcissistic, cynical place where human solidarity is systematically crushed by the relentless competition to bed the perfect man-boy and consume the most baubles.  What impulses to "community" that may have existed in the early seventies and later during the AIDS epidemic is long over as the legions of the self-hating outdo each other to ape the worst features of an oppressive larger culture.

That's why I'm glad to see this broadening of the discussion of sexuality.  I'm 100% homosexual, always have been, but have never liked or felt comfortable in what was presented to me as the gay scene (to say nothing of affording to live there anyway).  None of my best friends have been gay men, though I've known dozens and have great memories.  That's why I think it's important to look at human relations through a much broader prism than sexual identity.  This is a tough society to navigate, with atomization and isolation the inevitable consequences of dog-eat-dog competition and its attendant cult of the individual.  For most of us, finding human warmth and support, of any type, is a rare and wonderful thing.  Sexual intimacy between consenting adults should therefore be celebrated in whatever form it presents itself, rather than divided into favored and unfavored categories or identities.  If it comes your way, seize it and live it completely -- it may not happen again.  And insist on your right to do so.  If Brokeback has taught us anything, it's that.