Gay and Christian in the World of Today II

[BayCityJohn]

Satirist ponders true meaning of Christ outside Christianity

Becky Garrison is a New York-based religious satirist with the requisite irreverence and vicious wit. But, as she reveals in her new book "Jesus Died For This? A Satirist's Search for the Risen Christ," she's also a seeker who truly wants to understand what Jesus was about and how believers should follow him. In her travels over the past several years, including visits to the Holy Land, Ireland, Seattle and Yankee Stadium, Garrison separates the spiritually meaningful from what she calls the "ungodly glitz and Jesus junk." She shared some of her observations in an interview with Eileen Flynn.

Austin American-Statesman: You write religious satire, but your search for the risen Christ is very sincere. What inspired you to write ‘Jesus Died For This?'

Becky Garrison: Like Anne Rice, I often find myself wanting to "Quit Christianity so I can follow Christ." In "Brokeback Mountain" fashion, "I wish I knew how to quit Christ" because most days I'm in complete agreement with George Carlin, Bill Hicks and Eddie Izzard that these faith follies make no freaking sense whatsoever.


full article:

http://www.statesman.com/life/faith/satirist-ponders-true-meaning-of-christ-outside-christianity-870492.html

[DaveinPhilly]

Interesting article, Thanks BayCityJohn!

[desertrat]

wonderful words that give hope...from a  bishop: Bishop John Shelby Spong

I have made a decision. I will no longer debate the issue of homosexuality in the church with anyone. I will no longer engage the biblical ignorance that emanates from so many right-wing Christians about how the Bible condemns homosexuality, as if that point of view still has any credibility.

http://walkingwithintegrity.blogspot.com/2009/10/manifesto-from-our-friend-bishop-john.html

[Jer009]

NOVA: Building the Great Cathedrals

(snip)

In the Middle Ages, architects constructed great Gothic cathedrals that have stood for centuries. 

http://affiliate.zap2it.com/tv/nova-building-the-great-cathedrals/EP000031630600


 

[SilverLake]

There are several good YouTube videos in the "It Gets Better" and related series dealing with the Episcopal Church and gay youth.  Three of the best can be found at http://wildernessgarden.blogspot.com/2010/10/it-gets-better.html .  They include videos by Gene Robinson, the openly gay bishop of the Episcopal diocese of New Hampshire, by Susan Russell, the openly gay and partnered associate rector at All Saints' Episcopal Church in Pasadena, California, and by the three bishops of the Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles, one of who is openly gay and partnered (the other two are straight and married but quite supportive).

[CellarDweller115]

Airing this Tuesday (3/8) night at 10PM on OWN (Oprah Winfrey Network).

Our America:  Our America with Lisa Ling takes viewers along for an in-depth look at some of the most controversial and thought-provoking issues in the United States today, including religious movements, sex offenders, drug addiction and online brides. In each episode, Lisa immerses herself into the lives of the people she meets, offering compelling accounts of varied experiences and providing insight into some of our nation's most contentious issues. In sharing these stories, Lisa challenges viewers to understand different perspectives and even question what they themselves have always known to be true.

This Tuesday's episode:  "Pray The Gay Away"  Lisa Ling takes a look at one of the most polarizing debates in Christianity today: whether or not it's possible to be gay and Christian at the same time.  Watch a sneak peek of Lisa's interview with Exodus International president Alan Chambers about his struggles with homosexuality. Get the full story on Tuesday at 10/9c on an all-new episode of Our America with Lisa Ling, "Pray the Gay Away?".

http://www.oprah.com/own_tv/blog_detail.html?pid=690&eid=209127010&bid=22

[huntinbuddy]

Thanks Chuck.  I'll  watch that segment tomorrow night.

[fritzkep]

Grrrr!!!! Stuff like this really makes me angry. It might be a parody, but I don't think it is to her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UmotTE-VlY

Statements like this and those by Pat Robertson last year are really beyond the pale. If a nonbeliever or non-Christian should encounter her or his statements as their introduction to Christianity, they would be so turned off as to reject the faith entirely. And the fault would belong to the ones making the statements. They won't know we are Christians by our love, if love is just a disguise for hate.

[tonydude]

  It's been a couple of years since I've posted in this thread, owing to what I had said being so controversial.  And that was that the Catholic church was not the primary enemy of gay rights. There followed multiple explosions about archaic, but somewhat limited dogmatic issuances from the hierarchy.  Etc. Etc.  But the subject is so tense, and the agendas so fierce, that I was not heard on a primary point: the church is acknowledged by its own leadership as more than the clergy, more than the Vatican; it is the people themselves.
  Wallowing in the Huffington Post (which I admit to doing, daily), I found the following story, which was rapidly switched from the main news page and tossed to the lesser-read Religion section.  According to Dr. Robert P. Jones, of the Public Religion Research Institute, Catholics, in the U.S., are more pro-gay than other Christians.....AND the general public.
 Some stats:  * 74% support marriage or civil unions between the same gender
                   * 73% support special protective laws
                   * 63% support openly gays in the military
                   * 60% support adoption rights for same gender couples
                   * 56% do not consider same gender sex between adults a sin

  On that last, it ought to be remembered Catholics tend to think nearly everything non-spiritual a sin, ranging from the piddling (venial) to the serious (mortal), but that that is human nature and we are forgiven, with the primary goal being accepting a family relationship with God.

  Several observations before leaving this thread for another two years...
1) non-Catholics have not got a clue, usually, to what Catholicism really is, as an historical force.
2) the church has almost always been a refuge for gays.  Gore Vidal fled a homophobic U.S. for......Rome, where he reported back....nobody really cared.
3) there is and always will be a difference between the byzantine teachings of the church in some areas, and its more powerful message of peace and social justice, which would explain the %'s  above.
4) gay activists who do not recognize the imperfect but extremely strong support from the institution itself, are shooting themselves in the foot (I noticed, years ago, Catholic schools were the employers of last resort for gay teachers unless they politicized their classes)
5) What's wrong with the Episcopalians?  Are they gonna accept this toppling of their own stats  ?

[jnov]

interesting post.
1. my dad always used to say, "the church is the people."
2. when one of my siblings say "the church says [this or that]" my mom always responds with, "it does not teach that!" to which we say, "yes, that is the official teaching of the church," to which she responds, "well, that is just silly.  that is not what the people think." 

so although the catholic church, meaning the vatican and dogma, may say one thing or another, catholics usually pay very little attention to it and just go on their merry way.

having said all that, i no longer go to church or consider myself a "catholic" because i can't stand the misogyny of the church.

[Sandy]

Tony,

I do see your point. But if a lay member (or priest) openly advocated for gay marriage, say, she or he would be open to at least censure and, possibly, excommunication. The current pope may have tried to dodge the issue of gays being sinful by calling us "inherently disordered," but the second-class-citizen status is still upheld.

The claim that "the church is the people" cannot be used to justify what the hierachy/business end of the church does. After all, Episcopalians and others also believe that the church is the people.

My point, if there really is one, is that the relationship between the people and the TC hierarchy, as it currently exists, is not a transparent one. And if you believe that the divine ground of reality was transparent through Jesus as the Christ, then this lack of transparency is indeed troubling. Some one is getting an obscured, foggy message.  (I acknowledge that, given we are frail human beings, there can never be complete transparency, but actions of the hierarchy over recent decades (e.g., shuffling pedophile priests from parish to parish) suggest a disordered institution.

[tonydude]

.....  (I acknowledge that, given we are frail human beings, there can never be complete transparency, but actions of the hierarchy over recent decades (e.g., shuffling pedophile priests from parish to parish) suggest a disordered institution.

   Hi, Sandy - You did note that you had gone past the core of my post, and thanks.......so few do that.  As to the bolded, above, I couldn't agree more.  The hierarchy is scary, to me, in their priorities.
  Someone once asked me what I thought of the Protestant Reformation of the church.  I said I thought it was a great idea.....when did they intend to start?  I think whether a Protestant or a Catholic reformation, one is needed.  And far past the approach to gay issues.  But this has been going on for several thousand years, in the Judeo-Christian tradition (we ought to remember, the prophets were howling about the distance between organized and intended religion).
 Meanwhile, am off to other threads, as this really isn't in my comfort zone.  I just wanted to show those stats, and hope that they are transformed into votes.  My area of interest was elections, rather than ideology.  And hoping to show, social justice can make for strange bedfellows.

[fritzkep]

Very good, y'all.

At one time, the idea of charging interest on money was considered sinful. It was considered as sinful as performing homosexual acts is now. Over time, the Church realized that their idea of money as static was no longer working. It took a long time, but the Church did change.

One of these centuries, the Church might come to its senses about the actuality of human sexuality. After all, it's only quite recently that the Church has finally realized that human sexuality is about more than mere procreation, but can be a sign of expressing love. That has taken a few centuries, also.

In the meantime, one picks and chooses what one finds best in the Church. Just because the religious right within the Church chooses different items to emphasize does not make them any less "cafeteria Catholics", a term of opprobrium that they reserve for the religious left.

[Nikki]

Instead of choosing from the selection at the cafeteria, I prefer to wonder what Christ would have chosen to feed to his flock. Then pick from that and welcome everyone to the banquet.

[desertrat]

so although the catholic church, meaning the vatican and dogma, may say one thing or another, catholics usually pay very little attention to it and just go on their merry way.

having said all that, i no longer go to church or consider myself a "catholic" because i can't stand the misogyny of the church.

isn't it similar with feminism and the catholic church? you might have to pay close attention...but..... i work for a feminist catholic development aid organisation...can you believe that? we do have our daily little disputes with the bishops, yes. but nevertheless, we are part of that church. we deserve that and we fight for our space.