BBM General Discussion 2

[Ellen (tellyouwhat)]

Even though though father-in-law died before Jack I think he was behind it somehow --- OR --- Maybe his cronies waited until the father-in-law died to kill Jack so he wouldn't be around to be blamed.

Just thinking out loud. I need a glass of wine.

My 2 cents -- I don't think L.D. Newsome would want to make his daugher a widow, or to hurt Bobby by killing his father.  Despite personal animosities, I think family ties run deep, and in a way that is another lesson of Brokeback.  Even the marriages of closeted men cause pain to a rippling amount of people in the community

[Ellen (tellyouwhat)]

Greetings,  Paul,
A couple of quick questions for you:  

__Would you be so kind as to contrast the idea of 'decoding' a story as opposed to 'interpreting' same?


__Also, why might the casual (non-academic) reader have a need to 'objectively' analyze a work of fiction, such as BBM?

(-Maybe I should address the latter question to garyd, but - no offense intended - your responses to technical questions seem to me to be a bit more comprehensible.)

Reminder that the discussion is public!  Otherwise it would be taking place via PM.

[CellarDweller115]

Reminder that the discussion is public!  Otherwise it would be taking place via PM.

Thanks Ellen.

Also, let's remember that replies should remain on topic.  Thanks!

[AZ.bbm]

Reminder that the discussion is public!  Otherwise it would be taking place via PM.

-Should we avoid references to other members, altogether, as well? - or only posts directed toward other members, or..?

(BTW, is there a written rule on that, or is it simply customary?)



@Chuck,
I'm confused: What is the actual topic?

[Ellen (tellyouwhat)]

AZ, good morning.

It is a general discussion.  If and when you are asked to take it to another thread, probably you will do so very nicely, so don't worry about it.  You'll know when that happens.

Please, if you have to comment on the modding, PM Chuck or me.

Thanks!

[CellarDweller115]

-Should we avoid references to other members, altogether, as well? - or only posts directed toward other members, or..?

(BTW, is there a written rule on that, or is it simply customary?)

@Chuck,
I'm confused: What is the actual topic?

The actual topic is General discussion of the movie or short story, topics that may not have a specific thread here.  My post was just a reminder that of that.  Gary's post stated he posted here because he felt his post didn't fit into "Were They Gay".  That's fine.  However, if the discussion should wander back in that direction, then it would need to go back to "Were They Gay".

Regarding the post to Paul, when someone makes a post in that manner, it may be assumed by the readers that you are only expecting replies from Paul.  In an open thread, replies can be placed by anyone and if you truly only want replies from Paul, then it should take place via PM.  that's all.  You don't have to avoid mentioning people's names.  Just bear in mind that you may get other replies from other members.

[AZ.bbm]

-Okay, word up!  &
Thanks to you both for the clarifications!!!

[andy]

My 2 cents -- I don't think L.D. Newsome would want to make his daugher a widow, or to hurt Bobby by killing his father.  Despite personal animosities, I think family ties run deep, and in a way that is another lesson of Brokeback.  Even the marriages of closeted men cause pain to a rippling amount of people in the community

I like the way the movie shows LD as a bully but like most bullies, is relatively easy to put down, as did Jack when standing up to him at last. I don't see the film character as having anything in him to suggest he could kill or arrange a killing.

[CellarDweller115]

I like the way the movie shows LD as a bully but like most bullies, is relatively easy to put down, as did Jack when standing up to him at last. I don't see the film character as having anything in him to suggest he could kill or arrange a killing.

I agree.  I remember all the times I've seen that movie in a theater, that scene almost always got a response from the audience, mostly cheers.

[AustinGirl]

Yes. Now that I think about it I don't think he would have arranged to have Jack killed.

Did anyone notice in the FNIT scene Ennis says "What are you doin?" as Jack starts to make the moves on him. Also in the bar when he meets Cassie she puts her feet in his lap and Ennis says "What are you doin?" Why did Ennis find it hard to believe that someone wanted to show affection towards him?

Also at the bar he says "Earlier today I was castrating calves".  Does Ennis himself feel castrated? Does he feel so bad that he rejected Jack's plea's to "live the sweet life" over the years that he feels he does not deserve to have a relationship with anyone else? Do you think he was about to allow himself to finally "live the sweet life" with Jack?

Back to topic about "Were they gay?". Yes I think they both knew they were gay from childhood. Ennis just would not let himself believe it.

[andy]

Did anyone notice in the FNIT scene Ennis says "What are you doin?" as Jack starts to make the moves on him. Also in the bar when he meets Cassie she puts her feet in his lap and Ennis says "What are you doin?" Why did Ennis find it hard to believe that someone wanted to show affection towards him?

I'm not so sure that it was a matter of not taking affection, Kim, but more a matter of something happening that he just wasn't used to. And let's face it, affection didn't have much to do with FNIT, did it?

[CellarDweller115]

I'm not so sure that it was a matter of not taking affection, Kim, but more a matter of something happening that he just wasn't used to. And let's face it, affection didn't have much to do with FNIT, did it?

I think Andy's right.  FNIT really didn't have any affection, did it?  That was established in SNIT.

[Tony_]

 Oh, well, Literary Criticism has again re-appeared.  IMO, it is a legitimate reference point, to a degree, as to exploring the text of the SS and the author's intentions, which are what keep the discussion threads going.  And going  .
  I have noticed the types of LC are tilted towards the English speaking theories (although Gary did list Formalism, in there somewhere).  The Russians, though, from 1890-1920 made huge jumps in LC, and these are often unknown to the West. [Along, also, with Russian literature's influence.  Hemingway, if not plagiarizing, at least copied the writing style of Babel.  And AP, if not influenced by Hemingway's terse, rough prose, has some similarities in her own.]

 Anyway, for those who want to look at BbM and the controversies, from a new perspective, they might try Boris Eichenbaun's "How Gogol's 'Overcoat' is Made".  There can be found a persuasive argument that, once choosing a format, the format generates the text.  Especially in...short stories.

 I would also suggest much confusion arises from the (to me) ridiculous idea that an author is writing to readers. There's more, IMO, a continuum.  At one extreme, there are poets and authors, who are writing just to express themselves (some American poets come to mind) and their works are discovered after their deaths.  Author writing to author.  Then there are authors to one other person (one of Shakespeare's sonnets?).  And at the other end of the continuum, author persuading the reader (Tom Paine, in his pamphlets).
 When we look at AP's short story, then, and am sorry if this adds even more complexity, we might consider where she was, on that continuum.

 Finally, (ack!)...some creative people are trying to keep up with the Joneses, and so, might be somewhat competing with their sub-set.  The sub-set of that small circle of the creatively endowed.
 IMO, it is for these reasons, along with others, that there is a great energy in the BbM discussion threads.  There's more there.

[CellarDweller115]

Wow! That is wonderful. I would love to meet you guys in person sometime. This movie is so powerful. I have NEVER felt this way about any movie in my life.

Hiya Kim!

Don't know if you saw this thread.  It's a "read only" thread, a vault if you will, of group shots of various gatherings that contained 5 or more "Brokies".

Feel free to check out the thread, each pic has the date of the gathering, as well as (if possible) a list of those who attended.


Brokeback Gatherings:  Group Shots:  Read Only

[fritzkep]

Those are always good to see again, Chuck!