BBM General Discussion 2

[Ministering angel]

Thank you for that, Jo. Pass on my best wishes to Rosewood. I hope she'll be back soon with her wondrous poetic posts.

[Cally]

And mine.  I've been thinking about her because I'm enjoying reading books she's recommended.

[Desecra]

I had been missing her - I'm sorry to hear that she's been away for such a miserable reason.   (I've sent you a PM).

[bubba]

[lislis]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/hubs/realtrips/4944309/Ranching-with-cowboys-in-Wild-West-Wyoming.html

"...I asked a wrangler what he thought of the two cowboys in
Brokeback Mountain. I soon wished I hadn't."

[Desecra]

Thank you for that link.   "One. I ain't got time for no sheep herders. And two, I ain't got time for no gays."   Some things haven't changed much.   Looks like the Hideout is a holiday destination to avoid.

[lislis]

I went to Walmart here in the Midwest USA
at about 0100 on 2009-03-10 and bought the
Blu-ray Disc of Brokeback Mountain.

Even using a Philips MC-129 Micro System, the
Blu-ray Disc (DTS-HD Master Audio) soundtrack
seems to be more detailed than the regular
DVD (Dolby Digital) soundtrack.

I'll listen to the Blu-ray Disc soundtrack with
headphones in the next few days, maybe
some of the "which character said what"
can be resolved.

[chapeaugris]

... maybe some of the "which character said what" can be resolved.

OK, I'll start the list.

1. A few people claim that Jack called Ennis "sweetie" during the bloody nose scene. I simply cannot believe it.

[CANSTANDIT]

he did..you have to listen real close; he says it fast-and you'll see Ennis's enraged reaction, right behind it, as his fist balls up on Jack's shoulder.

[lislis]

http://www.davidfisco.com/node/166

"While no character in Brokeback Mountain
can be considered an Objectivist and the
film is philosophically muddied and inconsistent..."

[AZ.bbm]

http://www.davidfisco.com/node/166

"While no character in Brokeback Mountain
can be considered an Objectivist and the
film is philosophically muddied and inconsistent..."

Hi LL,
This is a very interesting thread, and David Fisco's article was something of an eye opener, thanks.

"...Why employ careful research, setting your story in geographically accurate locations, only to have your most august relationship develop on a fictitious mountain?... When a writer opens a door allowing anyone to call any scene a phantasm, anything goes. Such a writer takes no moral, social or epistemic stand, and no interpretation of that writer's work has any validity. A writer who engages in such philosophic treason is worse than the modern "artists" who hang blank canvases hoping viewers will project whatever the viewers wish on their nonsensical "creations." At least with the modern artists we can quickly look elsewhere; the dramatist who engages in such behavior pilfers two hours and fifteen minutes of our lives."

"...Although not written in the genre of Romantic Realism and seriously flawed in philosophy, morality, construction and execution..."

-Az.

[CANSTANDIT]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Did Jack and Ennis marry their wives in good faith? Clearly, both men were bisexual and willing to perform sexually with their wives.

Another example of someone assuming bisexuality because a man can sleep with a woman, as well as a man. How naive. How many gay men were married for decades? All we need it to look around our forum...sigh.

Interesting analysis, from the objectivism pov of Ennis, especially. I don't normally embrace philosophical interpretations-they always seem one or two layers  removed from true inner motivations of characters, but I really liked this one. I don't agree with all of it, but I do agree with alot of it.

I think it is an example of how the story and film just can't quite co-mingle in every instance. There are definite contradictions-read the footnotes, too, there is some interesting stuff in there. I like how the writer recognizes the heterosexulaizing of some of the love scenes on film. I've always felt that way; the story is much grittier, much more like I'd imagine two guys feeling comfortable with each other. Some important stuff in there about denial, too-and about Ennis's need to conform.


tx for posting it! It's worth a whole thread by itself, almost.

[janjo]

I found the article most interesting, but I tend to the view that the story represents "real life" characters, and can "real life characters ever successfully fit a philosophical model?

[CANSTANDIT]

Probably not perfectly...but I think philosophical models can be applied in general to characters-and people. In literature, I know, it's easier to label. If Ennis were standing here talking to us, he'd be a bit harder to peg for all of the complexities, I think.

[janjo]

I was thinking, that if you fitted the characters to an overall philosophical plan, and if all serious writing had to fit that same model, that literature would soon become boring and predictable.