Awards Aftermath - Part 2

[garyd]

Thanks for that Gary, it didn't sound like something anyone in Heath's
position would say which is why I posed the question if anyone had heard
this before. It sounded like something I would say at an Oscar party about
a performance I wasn't fond of, and I will!

From the link you provided:

And even though we happen to agree with this comparison of Ledger's and
Hoffman's performances, we don't think Ledger actually said it.

I'm glad someone called this out in the interest of accuracy.

LOL, yes it is a rather pungent, even scathing remark, perhaps best left to the most egregious of circumstance.  That being said, I can certainly think of several scenery devouring performances for which it seems entirely appropriate.  (PSH as Capote, not being one in my opinion.)
And, as I mentioned, if HL actually did use the phrase, then so be it.  However, one is simply loathe to allow it to pass into urban legend without some effort at substantiation

[garyd]

Gary, do you know anything abut the reasons Infamous was
released when it was? After Capote and not before or at the same time?

I do not know the specifics.  I assume Sony Classics outmaneuvered Warners in placing it for distribution.  
ETA:
Here is a NYT article that may shed some light.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/16/business/media/16adcol.html

I don't think the NYT pay wall will stop anyone from viewing.

[bubba]

Yes thanks for posting that Gary, sorry if I didn't say that.  I read the whole thing.   Heath was a class act, he really was - I have never heard anyone say anything different.   Maybe he was too sweet/genuine for the entertainment industry - seems like they eat their young! 

[bubba]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VcWRJHBUDM


I just googled PSH's acceptance speech, I wanted to hear what he said (I didn't remember at all).   And it was a kind of little stab in the heart seeing Heath there, looking so happy (with Michelle).   Boy that really was a strong category that year.  I had forgotten about Joaquin Phoenix in Walk the Line (he could easily have won) and Terrence Howard was really good in Hustle and Flow.

I also saw a nice pic of Heath and PSH and George Clooney and I forgot who else......just laughing and talking at the awards. I bet you Heath was just thrilled to be there that night, his career was just taking off and he was in love and a new Daddy. 

[kathy]

RE:  Heath's so-called "quote", which I've never heard or read of and certainly don't believe.

Heath & Jake wanted very much to win for BBM due to its groundbreaking mainstream success and the nature of the film itself.  Mr. Prieto's cinematography was beautiful; it lost too.   

We are all aware of the inside job "ampas" did in their campaign to deny Brokeback Mountain its deserved Best Picture; of course they had outside help, including those Lionsgate weinsteins.   
Ang won Best Director and BBM does not win Best Picture   Unbelievable.  To see BP go to such a race card film like haggis' TRASH is unbelievable.  Biggest mistake in its history. 

In no way do I think hoffman deserved that BA award.  I had never even heard of him and all of a sudden he is up for BA just because he portrays Capote?  Come on!  Why can't we realize that Heath's Ennis was flawless and say he should have definitely won?  Jake too.  We are not prey to the homophobia which denied a beautiful film so much.

Both boys - H&J - went to congratulate winners.  In my mind I thought they did look sad.  But they are not ungracious - as Affleck was on showing how miffed he was on not winning BD for his film this year.  (So glad for Ang)!  Heath was a gentleman and never a bad word has been said about him.  So what if the damned press and he didn't get along? 

Many will disagree, perhaps many will not, but this has always been my heartfelt feeling.  Perhaps part of it is because I still can't believe he is not with us anymore and the unfairness of this will always be a hard thing to my heart.

kathy

   

[bubba]

RE: 
In no way do I think hoffman deserved that BA award.  I had never even heard of him and all of a sudden he is up for BA just because he portrays Capote?  Come on!  Why can't we realize that Heath's Ennis was flawless and say he should have definitely won?  Jake too.  We are not prey to the homophobia which denied a beautiful film so much.

Kathy if you had never heard of PSH that says something, because he already had a large body of work (that's what some people were complaining about) even the statement attributed to Heath (which we now know wasn't true) says just that.  That maybe he won because of all the work he had done up to that point.

And did you see Capote??

Both boys - H&J - went to congratulate winners.  In my mind I thought they did look sad.  But they are not ungracious - as Affleck was on showing how miffed he was on not winning BD for his film this year.  (So glad for Ang)!  Heath was a gentleman and never a bad word has been said about him.  So what if the damned press and he didn't get along? 

I would like to see a picture of them looking sad.   I can post the pictures of them laughing and joking at the Oscars, congratulation winners (no sad faces).  Like I said, they were young and on top of the world.  It was a happy night for them (and a happy time in their lives)!!

Many will disagree, perhaps many will not, but this has always been my heartfelt feeling.  Perhaps part of it is because I still can't believe he is not with us anymore and the unfairness of this will always be a hard thing to my heart.

kathy

It would certainly have been nice if BB had won that night, by all accounts everyone thought it was going to win.  It was a great movie (it was groundbreaking) and that will never change.


 

[Lyle (Mooska)]

That being said, I can certainly think of several scenery devouring performances for which it seems entirely appropriate.  (PSH as Capote, not being one in my opinion.)

I don't think it has to be a scenery devouring performance to apply. When I watched Capote I was
always aware that Hoffman was acting. Aware of his technique and I never bought into it. I felt like
I was being put on. I didn't believe he was Capote. (And I had no bias about it at first because the
film was out weeks before Brokeback Mountain was.) I've been trying to figure out for years why
critics and the like were so taken in by it, heh!  What were they seeing that I wasn't? I would guess
that you were aware of Capote and saw him on television and the like. Did you really think Hoffman's
performance fit the bill portraying him?

[bubba]

Honestly and truthfully yes, but Toby was excellent.... so sweet and vulnerable, remember the scene in the cell with him and Daniel Craig (Perry) when he was acting like he was going to force himself on him,  I cried, I really did.


Like I said (thanks to you Lyle, damn you all to heck!) I have been watching youtube and people and Oscar speeches...  And I watched Tom Hanks winning for Forrest Gump, I think my heart would have broke if he hadn't won......but how could I dispute Morgan (in Shawshank) or John Travolta (in Pulp Fiction)?  I don't know, I just don't feel the need to hate one to love another.


Not saying that you do!

[garyd]

I would guess that you were aware of Capote and saw him on television and the like.
 Did you really think Hoffman'sperformance fit the bill portraying him?

Yes, I think his performance in “Capote” is excellent for a variety of reasons not the least of which is its service to the script and the character.
But, more of that in a moment.

And yes, I was quite aware of Truman Capote going all the way back to “Breakfast at Tiffany’s”, his book “In Cold Blood”, and then, more extensively, through a freshman literature survey course in college.  Like many of us, however, most of my exposure to him as a person was through those “willies” inducing disoriented talk show appearances by which time he had devolved into a lap dog for the rich and famous “Women’s Wear Daily” set.

Now back to the performance in “Capote”.
PSH manages to connect with the audience without abandoning the intrinsic and important narcissism of the character.  He does a decent job of conveying Capote’s drawl and diminutive stature while avoiding caricature or mere impersonation and by simultaneously clearly conveying the complexity of Capote’s personality.

Hoffman presents a man who is certainly vulnerable and needy but also cunning, duplicitous, and confident of his position as the most interesting person in the room.   He gives us a steely, ruthless, determined Capote prior to the self-parody we all came to know but preserves the whiny, gossipy, alcohol drenched, underlying persona that would take center stage later in life. 

[Lyle (Mooska)]

I guess JoAnne Carson and I will just have to disagree. 
Servicing the script and the character from the script, yes,
but of Truman Capote, no, IMO.

[garyd]

I guess JoAnne Carson and I will just have to disagree. 
Servicing the script and the character from the script, yes,
but of Truman Capote, no, IMO.

No problem here. 
Please know that I am not attempting to lure you to the dark side. 
You posted an articulate rationale for your position and, since you asked, I am simply attempting to return the favor.
We both know, of course, that the "best" lead performance that year was delivered by HL.  He created something out of the whole cloth of the script and short story that has already become iconic and will be studied and revered for a very long time.
JG did the same.

[bubba]

[bubba]

25 Best Supporting Actor Nominees that Lost Oscar



http://www.listal.com/list/top-25-best-supporting-actor


WOW Jake was in good company!

[kathy]

bubba:  It is true - I hadn't heard of hoffman at all or his prior acting and I admit it.  I suppose that says something about me and/or films he had been in.

The BA performance that year was done by Heath as Ennis.  I truly believe that Ang Lee saw how perfect he (and Jake who should have won the BSA award) would be and had the true feeling that the film BBM would be very, very special, as well as groundbreaking and the perfect chemistry between the boys. 
You are correct - the film will be remembered so so much for its rousing success, the very evident chemistry between the boys and its tragic story.  It is a great movie and, yes, this will never change.  Just think of the books that have been written about it in just a half-dozen years.   

Just a note:  As L. McMurtry said on seeing Heath in the DVD of Monster's Ball that Diana showed him, "you can turn it off now; that's our Ennis..." 

kathy