The New Yorker - Discussion

[garyd]

A temporary farewell only, Michael, until future threads, events, etc.

Welcome, Glenn.....


Well, I fnally read a story whose name escapes me-it was about the kleptomaniac. It was a quick read, and I had to move on to something so cannot recall the name. But, happy to discuss if anyone knows what I'm talking about. Its the one where the protagonist steals the wallet in the bathroom...??

It is called' Found Objects".  I actually liked it.  But, what was missing in that poor girl's life that she thought "objects" might replace? 
It as been a couple of weeks, I may have to read it again in order to discuss. 

[CANSTANDIT]

A temporary farewell only, Michael, until future threads, events, etc.

Welcome, Glenn.....


Well, I fnally read a story whose name escapes me-it was about the kleptomaniac. It was a quick read, and I had to move on to something so cannot recall the name. But, happy to discuss if anyone knows what I'm talking about. Its the one where the protagonist steals the wallet in the bathroom...??

It is called' Found Objects".  I actually liked it.  But, what was missing in that poor girl's life that she thought "objects" might replace? 
It as been a couple of weeks, I may have to read it again in order to discuss. 

I look forward to that, gary..  note what the shrink asks her about the old man.....

[chapeaugris]

Well, I fnally read a story whose name escapes me-it was about the kleptomaniac. It was a quick read, and I had to move on to something so cannot recall the name. But, happy to discuss if anyone knows what I'm talking about. Its the one where the protagonist steals the wallet in the bathroom...??

I read this a couple days ago. It reminded me of a novel, I think it was Bee Season, in which the mother of a family steals all kinds of things and in the end it turns out she created this amazing kaleidoscopic mobile type thing out of all the objects in the room of a warehouse or something. Does this ring a bell with anyone?

[dahlia]

Dahlia, you can read most of it online at http://www.newyorker.com

It's hard to explain to a foreigner what the New Yorker represents to me. It's been part of my life since before I can remember. When you see it in someone's home you can probably assume they are not a Republican.  The short story Brokeback Mountain was first published in its pages 10 years ago. The New Yorker has been in continuous existence for at least 100 years, I think. Until the late 80s or so it had no photographs and only a few pencil drawings to illustrate articles. There is always at least one fiction piece and some poems but the rest is articles on all kinds of subjects. Before it was revamped in the 80s the articles often ran very, very long.

My parents had a subscription for decades and I grew up with it, first just looking at (and puzzling over) the cartoons, then reading the movie reviews and gradually moving on to everything else as I got older.  My own subscription has followed me wherever I've lived and now my husband, who is British, is hooked, too. It's published weekly and it's easy to fall behind. We have a hard time throwing them out for fear of having missed something good (the way I missed reading Brokeback Mountain 10 years ago).

I see. I know how it is when you get addicted to a magazine (and yes, generally it is a literary/cultural one). The fear to throw them away and to miss something good....oh yeah!
Thanks for the explanation 

[Rosewood]

What the New Yorker means to me.

I guess it is my way of keeping in touch with all things New York since
I no longer live in the city, and haven't for years and years. (Unfortunately.)

It is the same reason why
the only newspaper I still read is The NY Times. In fact, it is the facing
page on my computer. (...or whatever you call it when your computer hooks
onto the internet and the page opens up.)

There's just something comforting about The New Yorker.
It makes me feel good simply arriving in my mailbox.
And thankfully, it contains very little smugness and sniping.
Plus you just NEVER know what interesting tidbit you're going to
find or learn or stumble across. There seems to be no limit to their
interests.

So NOT the same feeling you get with the OTHER NY mag, New York.
Precisely why I haven't read that one in years and have no intention of doing so.

I can't say I've been a subscriber to TNY since my carefree youth, but I have now
been a subscriber for several years and couldn't imagine my life without it.
I even read the ads.
It is a great place to catch up on the latest books, films, theater simply
by looking at the ads. And you can't beat the variety of editorial contributors.
And though I am not a short story reader by natural inclination, I do find myself
reading the TNY stories more often than not.

It also helps that they have Seymour Hersh on board.
And last but not least, they seem to share my political views.
That never hurts.

Example: the Dec. 10th issue.
I can't wait to get my hands on Leo Lerman's diaries.
THE GREAT SURPRISE is, I think, the name of the new book.
Samples in TNY were tantalizing, to say the least.
As well as samples of of other diarists' work.

[garyd]

How delightful, Rosewood.  Your post brings back so many memories
I first discovered the New Yorker at my grandmothers house when I was a very
early teen.  it became my passport, much more so than Time or Life or Look, my portal
to new worlds and ideas.
I eagerly read all of the theatre reviews and then re-read them, in the abbreviated form
every week.  This was long before the internet, of course, so information regarding theatre
and film and literature was all in print. (Even before I discovered the NYTimes since this was
prior to it being printed locally by satellite).
"Talk of Town" always fascinated me.  The people, who were they? How glamorous and important
they all seemed. 
Later, of course, Pauline Kael with her strange, detailed, wonderful film critiques (sometimes, I swear, longer than
the shooting script of the film she was talking about)
It was not until many years later than my son weaned me away from reading reviews prior to watching the film.  He
has always been adamant about it and, now, of course, I can't imagine it any other way.
We are in NYC all the time now and the magazine has changed several times over the years
but it still remains a sort of touchstone...my personal "wise fool".

[garyd]

Ok, CSI, now on to "Found Objects".  Re -read it. 
Remember now what the appeal is.  The language and the
structure.  Excellent storytelling and the structure of moving back and
forth in time, all the while being in the therapist's office. 
Of course, it is Jennifer Egan ("The Keep", "Look at Me") so the language
and structure are to be expected I suppose.

I am missing something, however so y"all will need to help.
I mean I see , hell she tells us, that we are not dealing with a sociopath.
This woman, we are told, is capable of empathy.
Yes, there are abandonment issues (Dad left).
She cannot (refuses perhaps?) connect with people so she steals "things"
just to keep in touch? 
But once taken, they mean nothing.
It is the "act of taking" that gives a brief, transient, rush.
This is more than Daddy leaving 28 years ago, isn't it?
Post 9/11 feelings of loss and insecurity perhaps?
She does live on the lower east side, a place that once
felt like a way-station but is now a cocoon in which she does not
even bathe. 
Ok, enlighten.

[CANSTANDIT]

kee-rist, now I've got to re-read it.....

[Ellen (tellyouwhat)]

Ok, CSI, now on to "Found Objects".  Re -read it. 
Remember now what the appeal is.  The language and the
structure.  Excellent storytelling and the structure of moving back and
forth in time, all the while being in the therapist's office. 
Of course, it is Jennifer Egan ("The Keep", "Look at Me") so the language
and structure are to be expected I suppose.

I am missing something, however so y"all will need to help.
I mean I see , hell she tells us, that we are not dealing with a sociopath.
This woman, we are told, is capable of empathy.
Yes, there are abandonment issues (Dad left).
She cannot (refuses perhaps?) connect with people so she steals "things"
just to keep in touch? 
But once taken, they mean nothing.
It is the "act of taking" that gives a brief, transient, rush.
This is more than Daddy leaving 28 years ago, isn't it?
Post 9/11 feelings of loss and insecurity perhaps?
She does live on the lower east side, a place that once
felt like a way-station but is now a cocoon in which she does not
even bathe. 
Ok, enlighten.

Dang, this is a tough one.  I just read it today.  It makes me feel a bit spooky.  I want to like her, but I can't. 

Keeping all those things and not using them -- to the point that it is taking up significant space in her apartment, which is already small -- gives me the creeps.

Why does she lie about her age?  Isn't that weird?  Is it because she feels she wants a chance to make good, to do what she should have done back when she came to New York?  Is she trying to pretend time isn't passing?

And all the working out (in order to stay thin and look young) still it seems a compulsion.

And right, she used to shower at her best friend's place, when they used to talk.

She didn't like her former boss, but I'm not sure if she has a job now.

Is she making any progress?  She gave back the wallet, but -- is that progress?

She didn't steal anything from Alex except the little note -- "that he would probably thank her for getting rid of" -- one of her rationalizations -- do you think the message "I believe in you" was something that gave her pause, reminded her she really did not want to steal from him?

[garyd]

I have no idea who this woman is, or who or what she is supposed to represent.
(She works as a temp, by the way, but we are not told where.  And she , at least in the past,
contributes some kind of writing to periodicals having to do with music).  She makes decent money (even lower east side apts
are not cheap, she keeps up her gym dues, she has internet access and a decent enough computer to allow that access. ). 

She appears intelligent and well educated.  She certainly knows the ins and outs of "talk therapy".
She says she wants to "get better" but she refuses to address the father abandonment issue.

She continues to steal.
In the end she even convinces herself that she is stealing "minutes" from Cox (even though she is
obviously paying for his services.)

I don't really want to write this thing off (Jennifer Egan has done some very interesting work (non-ficiton) on "mean girls",
gay teens who come out only on the internet, homeless women) but
unless someone can turn a light bulb on for me regarding this story, I plan to move on. 

[Ellen (tellyouwhat)]

gary, it was interesting enough to me that when I found it open on the kitchen counter today (serendipity?  New Yorkers have a life of their own) I kept reading a snippet here, a snippet there, and then I was very drawn into the story -- mostly because of the setting of her apartment, which seemed to indicate that she cared enough about herself to have an apartment decorated to her tastes, a cozy place to come home to, and the bonzai tree she waters faithfully.

And it sounds like a wonderful home, the kind of place Alex found charming, the kind of place that is hard to find.  A wonderful place for someone single.

She is dating someone she met off the internet, even though she is lying about her own age (says she is 28) and she guesses he is younger than his profile said.  So she seems not to be looking for a serious relationship.

The last resort I always look for -- structure.  Is there a climax to this story?  If so, I would say it was finding the note that said "I believe in you." 

Does she change by the end of the story?  The last paragraph leaves us in doubt of that.  "Please don't ask me how I feel."  Maybe she will change, but we aren't given much hope.  One of the things she wishes she could do was to call Lizzie and make up (for what?  Stealing bath salts wouldn't be enough to break up a friendship, but maybe there was something else.)

I did like the way the smell of the bath salts immediately took her back to the smell of Lizzie's bathroom.  Definitely no escape, the things she has taken are a form of "baggage" holding her back.

But I have no more enlightenment.  I agree, it's hard to have a lot of hope for her, especially if she will not accept her own age and her own reality.

[BrokenOkie]

Announcement 

tellyouwhat, aka Ellen, has volunteered to co-moderate the Books board.

Welcome, Ellen - and thanks!

[garyd]

Thanks, Ellen, (and also for being a mod in here) for your thoughts.
I too enjoyed the story, the creation of a sense of place and good characterization
(so difficult to pull of in the short form).

My problem is in trying to decipher just what this story is about.
Is Sasha meant to be an archetype, representative of some segment of
society that continues to delude itself, substituting materialism for something
more substantial, demonstrating a preference for stasis over growth, stealing bits of
other's lives in order to feel anything at all?

I don't know.  But if so.  Who cares?  Who are these people?  Are their numbers reaching
critical mass in terms of harming society in general? 
Why does Ms. Egan feel compelled to write about them?

[Ellen (tellyouwhat)]

gary, I didn't get the feeling she was meant to be an archetype, although she is a "type."

She is a character meant to have her own demons, but she is living in New York where things can become very impersonal.  It can be loneliest in a crowd.

She steals from people she knows, and people she has never seen. 

Did she return the wallet to the woman because she is reforming, or just because once she knew the woman, she didn't want the wallet anymore? (and because, she really is trying to face up to her problems-- handing something back to a person, looking them in the eye -- that MUST have been a step forward for her.)

The bath salts of her friend -- the beautiful screwdriver of the plumber -- these are actually tiny representations of their essence.  The scarf of the little girl was one of her favorite objects -- she didn't know the little girl, but she saw the little girl, and does she imagine she can, somehow, steal some of their essence into her own life?

She can deal with these "essences", all piled up on the table, but no close relationships.

I do think, as you suggest, she represents a modern alienation that is possible with today's lifestyles, internet dating, (the opportunity to lie about your identity, your age, whatever).

I think I could like her very much if she didn't have this problem, but she does have it. 

It's like when she returned from the bathroom looking suddenly alluring to Alex -- her ups and downs are based on this behavior, and that would sap a lot of energy from any relationship or friendship she might have.

[Ellen (tellyouwhat)]

thx glenn and gary for welcome!

 

love to get lost in the books