Media coverage: how are we seen?

[michaelflanagansf]

Here's an interesting article on the demise of gay bars and how it relates to the diminishing public space associated with the internet:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2007/12/02/last_call/?p1=MEWell_Pos4

[Jeff Wrangler]

Here's an interesting article on the demise of gay bars and how it relates to the diminishing public space associated with the internet:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2007/12/02/last_call/?p1=MEWell_Pos4

Thanks for posting that link, Michael. Unbelieveably timely for me to read that article, as I spent part of last evening discussiing the future and fate of our local hangout with some of my leather club brothers here in Philadelphia.

Philadelphia may be aggressively marketing itself as a gay tourist destination, but the powers that be have recently renamed the Gayborhood as "Midtown Village."

Hunh? 

[milomorris]

Here's an interesting article on the demise of gay bars and how it relates to the diminishing public space associated with the internet:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2007/12/02/last_call/?p1=MEWell_Pos4

This confirms the complaint that my youngest brother has been making for the last few years. He also reports that people are now heading to the bars in Providence, RI.

Milo

[michaelflanagansf]

The interesting thing about that article, for me, was the connection between the demise of gay bars and other public (not necessarily gay) public spaces.  In the 90s and early part of this decade I noticed the two gay bars on the peninsula at the same time Women's bookstores and gay bookstores were closing (and the one that remained open changed from being a real literary space into a tourist bookshop with colorful rainbow...well, everything).  At around the same time record stores started shutting their doors - first the ones that recycled CD - then the big ones (like Tower).  The big classical music store around the corner from me then closed.

I didn't know about the demise of Jewish delis - but now that I think about it that makes sense - the deli on the peninsula was sold by the family that owned it and bought by a non-Jewish family.

What the article doesn't say (perhaps too polite to) is that behavior is not necessarily any better on the internet than in bars - I have a neighbor who is constantly bringing in all sorts of men from the internet - to call the sites that he is on 'dating' sites is to use a euphenism.

It does seem that the 'public space' is shrinking and changing - and I wonder about both the alienation that people might be feeling and the resultant isolation.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Although this might be somewhat tangential, I believe the gay book store closings were also part of a larger phenomenon in book retailing, coming at the same time that we are told all sorts of independent book stores, not just gay book stores, were being driven out of business by the large chains and the Internet.

I was fascinated, too, by what the article had to say about the demise of public space, but I'm thinking now I need to go back and read it again because I can't remember if the author addressed the "rise of the coffee shop." I almost hate to say it, but around here people do seem to hang out at Starbucks and Cosi, and we had one independent coffee shop here in the Gayborhood close, only to be reopened not too many months later by new owners, and it always seems to be busy when I pass by.

No, those Web sites don't qualify as "dating sites" even in the sense of the old joke that a date is the two or three hours before sex. In the case of these Internet hookups its right ahead to the sex! 

[michaelflanagansf]

I agree completely about the internet and the closing of gay (and women's) bookstores - and record stores.  It's also true that other independent booksellers have had a terrible time remaining open as well.

The coffeeshop comment is very interesting - because one of the busiest spots in the Castro these days is the Starbucks on 18th Street.  It's so much of a phenomenon that Dave Attell featured it on his show a few years ago.  And what's interesting about that particular market is that there seem to be coffeeshops for everyone - there's a skater/bike messenger shop on Church street.

[chapeaugris]

Would those coffeshops be as crowded if they didn't have wireless internet? 

When I was in the US this summer I noticed laundromats that looked like a living room/café. Now there is one in Toulouse.

[michaelflanagansf]

Would those coffeshops be as crowded if they didn't have wireless internet? 

When I was in the US this summer I noticed laundromats that looked like a living room/café. Now there is one in Toulouse.

We have a few of those (actually, they've been around in SF for over a decade - one of the first was BrainWash)  - they actually have performers in the laundromats.    So that too is another thing which runs counter to the article - it's an expansion of the public sphere, not a contraction.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Would those coffeshops be as crowded if they didn't have wireless internet? 

I think the independent coffee shop that I mentioned here in Philadelphia would be. It's right next door to the gay gym, and we also have a community "in recovery" that seems to hang out there.

[CellarDweller115]

Although this might be somewhat tangential, I believe the gay book store closings were also part of a larger phenomenon in book retailing, coming at the same time that we are told all sorts of independent book stores, not just gay book stores, were being driven out of business by the large chains and the Internet.

I believe I read a story on that in "The Advocate"....a number of gay book stores were closing due to people shopping for gay materials online instead.

[michaelflanagansf]

I'm unsure where I should put this on the site - but this seems a likely place.  This is an article which discusses Mike Huckabee's comment that people with AIDS should be isolated - made in 1992, which he is now refusing to back away from.  Early in the 80s we knew that AIDS was not a readily transmissible disease and by the time Huckabee made his comments two ballot initiatives in California (by Lyndon Larouche) to quarantine people with AIDS had been defeated:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/12/09/politics/p092517S28.DTL&tsp=1

[CellarDweller115]

what a moron.

[michaelflanagansf]

what a moron.

Yes.  A presidential candidate moron, nonetheless....

[CellarDweller115]

Yes.  A presidential candidate moron, nonetheless....

aren't most of the candidates morons to some degree?

[Roco]

Yes.  A presidential candidate moron, nonetheless....

aren't most of the candidates morons to some degree?

I would prefere a Gay-Friendly Moron !