Second Night in the Tent

[Ministering angel]

Oh, I so agree Orleanas. The "fall" starts once Ennis realises just what has been going on with him and Jack. That doesn't seem to happen until Aguirre,(( Aguirre,The Wrath Of God), to steal from the title of the Werner Herzog film), sends them down. It is only then that he realises he may never see Jack again, and that if he wants to they both have to "face up" to the fact they are queer, and live the life that Ennis in particular knows is dangerous for both of them physically, and emotionally and psychologically almost impossible for him.
It is utterly heartrending.

What about the mixed feelings? Isn't that the first sign that Ennis is experiencing a dawning awareness? The film does not show us those mixed feelings at all (except directly after FNIT) and so it's possible to imagine the DE happening after the hailstorm. The mixed feelings happen BEFORE Aguirre sends word for them to come down.

[janjo]

Isn't that when Ennis starts to realise that he's in love with Jack? It is when they have to part that he can't face being a gay man, but his thought processes have to start somewhere. It is not a hard and fast reality to him until Aguirre sends them down. Then comes the punch and the "headlong and irreversible fall" from the mountain. He knows then and can't really cope with his emotions.

[Ministering angel]

So what are the mixed feelings? Don't forget that they are tied in symbolically with the sheep brands which have faded by this time in the season. I think you are trying to have an each-way bet by saying that things start after the August night, then happen when they are called down, then erupt when the punch is thrown.

[CANSTANDIT]

...And my guess is the DE did lead up to the Aug night, because nothing bad apparently happened after DE, like it did with the August night.  Once the aftermath of the Aug night happened, ie, the sheep and the hailstorm, my guess is Ennis may have steered a bit clear of Jack, until that last fling in the meadow that ended so bad. I don't think he would have felt ok about doing the DE after the sheep got mixed.

If I remember correctly, in the film, Ennis jokes around with Jack after the sheep gets mixed by saying that Jack would drive the sheep away again with him playing the harmonica. Ennis was in good spirits at that moment to me, seemingly content. With my interpretation of this exchange in the film, I would think that Ennis would have been OK about doing the DE after the sheep got mixed. It's only after they get notice from Aguirre to bring the sheep down that I notice a shift in Ennis and his possible brooding over the events on Brokeback. In the text, we are told that as they descended the mountain, "Ennis felt  he was in slow-motion, but headlong, irreversible fall." This makes me think that he was aware of his emotional involvement with Jack and the impact of the events on Brokeback.

The only problem is, we are not given the sunset ride with the harmonica in the SS-we get Ennis feeling mixed, then contortionist grappling and wrestling. Back to Sex Only.  And this all happens after the August night. So the DE, I think, might've been before, and the sheep getting mixed, the hailstorm, etc., might've been a reason for the start of no more DE's. Just a theory. That mixed feeling, is indeed a form of dawning, isn't it?

If the DE happened after, then the warning of the sheep was not such a big deal to Ennis-so why tell us things were getting mixed, and why tell us about the hailstorm at all? I can see him having sex again-but not the loving embrace. I think that in fact, was stopped short on it's own, by the reaction Ennis was most likely having, with Jack settling in his arms-he was feeling love, and could not tolerate or accept it, in that position, in the end. But to me, the whole 'we're in trouble' aspect of being in the tent, when the hailstorm hit, tells me he would've put an end to it.

 I think, too, the DE led to the night in the tent.

The need to be closer to Jack, after that embrace, even if he ran off from it, was probably pretty strong..... Because it nothing happened right after the DE, Ennis had no reason to fear a long night with Jack-he probably looked forward to it. Then, the sheep and the storm happened.

 I don't think this is impossible, or even unlikely-I just can't prove it.

[Ministering angel]

The idea of the elements, especially the wind, has to be remembered. The endless coursing wind accompanies them up the mountain, but the blowy hailstorm causes trouble, a sort of divine telling-off, and then as they descend from the mountain the wind draws forth the bestial drone. Thus the wind has the quality of a greek chorus.

Given the headlong irreversible fall, I doubt that Ennis would have been able to relax enough after the August night to enable him to hold Jack in the DE. He's been given his first warning by the gods.

[CANSTANDIT]

Yep, I agree, good nutshell. The  sheep getting mixed loses impact, if he is able to do the DE's after...That would mean he was igoring things getting mixed-but he doesn't do that. We know that much:'I'm not no queer'  shows us this. He does not allow things to go too far in that direction. He doesn't do anything that let's him think they are being queer-until the columbine, IMO. The DE happens because it is sexless and not f/f. So he has no cause to think of it as queer. Interestingly, it therfore HAS to be impactful for the emotions it brings forth in him, for him to have a need to escape it. Know what I mean? Cuz he is not doing anything he'd think was wrong. There's your underlying knowledge coming to the surface-he is holding Jack without sex. To what end? If it is not a part of FNITting, then he has to think, oops-this isn't leading to our usual stuff; why am I doing this, and why does it feel so good?
Ennis is a bit of an odd duck.

[edited for clarity..]

[Ministering angel]

But he remains true to the fuck-buddy idea. And let's not forget the apparent ( ) connection between the August night and Don Wroe's cabin. Or is it the DE and the cabin? Whichever (and I think it's the August night) it scares the bejesus out of him and he doesn't follow through. If we consider the DE pushing him towards the August night, then he may indeed have been warming to the idea of Jack, sufficient to enable him to get the cabin, but the reality of it scares him off again.

Will we ever sort out that darned cabin?

[Sandy]

~snip~The DE sheep getting mixed loses impact, ~snip~

The dozy embrace sheep? Or am I missing something here?

[CANSTANDIT]

No you're not...I miscommunicated-it should say just 'sheep getting mixed'. Tx.

[CANSTANDIT]

But he remains true to the fuck-buddy idea. And let's not forget the apparent ( ) connection between the August night and Don Wroe's cabin. Or is it the DE and the cabin? Whichever (and I think it's the August night) it scares the bejesus out of him and he doesn't follow through. If we consider the DE pushing him towards the August night, then he may indeed have been warming to the idea of Jack, sufficient to enable him to get the cabin, but the reality of it scares him off again.

Will we ever sort out that darned cabin?

I can still remember reading that, about Don Wroe's cabin, the rushing back thru the story going, "WTF?" to myself, as in When did I miss that? I didn't really understand how many things were implicit, until I got here..then a few things I simply did not catch before, I started to understand. That was one of them...
Don Wroe's Cabin. The eternally mysterious  'two guys living together'. Too close to home, for Ennis.

[garyd]

Will we ever sort out that darned cabin?

I can't help from wondering if Don might not be a descendant of John.

[janjo]

So what are the mixed feelings? Don't forget that they are tied in symbolically with the sheep brands which have faded by this time in the season. I think you are trying to have an each-way bet by saying that things start after the August night, then happen when they are called down, then erupt when the punch is thrown.

Each way bets always seem a good idea to me. I know we are told that the sheep are mixed, and Ennis' feelings are mixed, but there is nothing catastrophic going on here, a little uneasiness perhaps, a dawning realisation, I don't think we can use any of this, (to answer Jo's points here as well), to say when the DE happened, or they only had sex and no loving after the August night. I just don't think such extrapolations are indicated.
The storm does teach Ennis not to neglect the sheep, and as such is a warning, but to me it is a little like the build up to a thunderstorm, the lightning doesn't acually strike, emotionally, until Aguirre says to bring 'em down.

[Sandy]

No you're not...I miscommunicated-it should say just 'sheep getting mixed'. Tx.

Okay. I just feared I had missed a discussion in which Jack was counting mixed sheep before? during? after? the DE. 

[Dal]

I can't help from wondering if Don might not be a descendant of John.

He's descended from Shad and Tobacco Wroe.

[garyd]

I can't help from wondering if Don might not be a descendant of John.

He's descended from Shad and Tobacco Wroe.

oh, those Wroes.