Second Night in the Tent

[Ministering angel]

Of course, if it's remade in accordance with the story, there won't be any SNIT.

[DontwanttosayGB]

Good point...

[CANSTANDIT]

Well, we do have that mystery night in the tent from August on BBM in the SS-I wonder if that was transplanted in the filmmakers mind into SNIT. Since we are not told what went on.....?

[Ministering angel]

Are you thinking that Ennis might have seen the light after the DE and done a SNIT, hat in hand? It could work, but then it might lessen the impact of the DE in Jack's memory. I know it's the sexlessness which is the big thing about the DE, but a SNIT-type night after the DE isn't going to just involve sex. I think the uniqueness of the DE memory makes me inclined to say the August night wasn't a delayed SNIT.

[CANSTANDIT]

Are you thinking that Ennis might have seen the light after the DE and done a SNIT, hat in hand?

No, not me. But Ang Lee might've been-or the writers. To me the night in August is about time. Ennis did not rush off to the sheep-it was not quick, and maybe not so rough. He basically 'spent the night'. IMO, it  is what differed it from the other times, other than the drunken FNIT, where he essentially passed out, after.. And my guess is the DE did lead up to the Aug night, because nothing bad apparently happened after DE, like it did with the August night.  Once the aftermath of the Aug night happened, ie, the sheep and the hailstorm, my guess is Ennis may have steered a bit clear of Jack, until that last fling in the meadow that ended so bad. I don't think he would have felt ok about doing the DE after the sheep got mixed.

It could work, but then it might lessen the impact of the DE in Jack's memory.

Yes, I agree. The August night was likely the usual sex, but he stayed with Jack all night, he did not avoid being with him in the morning light. I am guessing his guilt was lessening as his feelings deepened. a la, 'how could something so wrong feel so right?' Then the sheep got mixed, and he took two steps back. Dammit. I do think the Aug night was progress..perhaps in that spirit, SNIT works, too.

I know it's the sexlessness which is the big thing about the DE, but a SNIT-type night after the DE isn't going to just involve sex.

Yes. I think it was not the quality of the sex that changed; it was perhaps the depth of feeling. I think Ennis had a hard time expressing emotional intimacy, regardless. Children and animals seemed to be the exception for him,- and the Reunion with Jack.

I

think the uniqueness of the DE memory makes me inclined to say the August night wasn't a delayed SNIT.

No, I don't think it was...I think the filmmakers may have seen it that way. Like they said, almost every line from the SS was used. 

[Cally]

Mini, somewhere here, probably ages ago, not sure when because I dip in and out for light relief, you said Ennis looked “endearingly gormless” (I think) immediately after the first kiss.  I just wanted to say, I love it!  It’s the last thing in the world I’d have thought of saying, but I do see what you mean, and it makes me smile every time I think of it.

I wish there was still something to say on this thread – it’s a haven from all the sad stuff.

[Ministering angel]

Yes, I recall saying he looked gormless, and I think I copped a bit of stick for it too. He just doesn't have a clue what to do with Jack. I love the way he sort of pulls his mouth in a little - it looks to me as if he's checking out the taste.

[Marz]

i think its the second night but could be the first
what does ennis just before they kiss, he membles something!  anyone know?

[Orleanas]

Supposedly, according to the subtitles, "I'm sorry," but for the life of me, having seen the film multiple times, being up close to the screen, and turning up the volume, other than hearing Jack say, "It's alright" once, I don't hear any of the stuff supposedly said in this scene, either.

[Marz]

it doesnt sound like that to me
i didn't think  of putting the suntitles on! might so that next time
thanks anyway

[Dal]

Check the top of this page.  there is a poll, about this very question.

[CANSTANDIT]

it doesnt sound like that to me
i didn't think  of putting the suntitles on! might so that next time
thanks anyway

marz, I know what you're talking about-most people don't hear the point you are talking about, right before the kiss. The allright's come after the kiss. I listend to that moment for a year, before giving up. Another poster and I narrowed it down to what sounds like, 'time ta...' do something. It's something you have to hear over the darned music, and I know exactly the point you are talking about. But I've had company at my house who heard other things, they had not heard before, but not that moment. It is weird how clear it is, that he says something,  on my DVD, but no one can understand it. One theory was that it was Ang Lee whispering off-sides direction, that got picked up by the sound man.SO glad another person has heard it! Now if we can just figure it out....

[Orleanas]

...And my guess is the DE did lead up to the Aug night, because nothing bad apparently happened after DE, like it did with the August night.  Once the aftermath of the Aug night happened, ie, the sheep and the hailstorm, my guess is Ennis may have steered a bit clear of Jack, until that last fling in the meadow that ended so bad. I don't think he would have felt ok about doing the DE after the sheep got mixed.

If I remember correctly, in the film, Ennis jokes around with Jack after the sheep gets mixed by saying that Jack would drive the sheep away again with him playing the harmonica. Ennis was in good spirits at that moment to me, seemingly content. With my interpretation of this exchange in the film, I would think that Ennis would have been OK about doing the DE after the sheep got mixed. It's only after they get notice from Aguirre to bring the sheep down that I notice a shift in Ennis and his possible brooding over the events on Brokeback. In the text, we are told that as they descended the mountain, "Ennis felt  he was in slow-motion, but headlong, irreversible fall." This makes me think that he was aware of his emotional involvement with Jack and the impact of the events on Brokeback.

[janjo]

...And my guess is the DE did lead up to the Aug night, because nothing bad apparently happened after DE, like it did with the August night.  Once the aftermath of the Aug night happened, ie, the sheep and the hailstorm, my guess is Ennis may have steered a bit clear of Jack, until that last fling in the meadow that ended so bad. I don't think he would have felt ok about doing the DE after the sheep got mixed.

If I remember correctly, in the film, Ennis jokes around with Jack after the sheep gets mixed by saying that Jack would drive the sheep away again with him playing the harmonica. Ennis was in good spirits at that moment to me, seemingly content. With my interpretation of this exchange in the film, I would think that Ennis would have been OK about doing the DE after the sheep got mixed. It's only after they get notice from Aguirre to bring the sheep down that I notice a shift in Ennis and his possible brooding over the events on Brokeback. In the text, we are told that as they descended the mountain, "Ennis felt  he was in slow-motion, but headlong, irreversible fall." This makes me think that he was aware of his emotional involvement with Jack and the impact of the events on Brokeback.

Oh, I so agree Orleanas. The "fall" starts once Ennis realises just what has been going on with him and Jack. That doesn't seem to happen until Aguirre,(( Aguirre,The Wrath Of God), to steal from the title of the Werner Herzog film), sends them down. It is only then that he realises he may never see Jack again, and that if he wants to they both have to "face up" to the fact they are queer, and live the life that Ennis in particular knows is dangerous for both of them physically, and emotionally and psychologically almost impossible for him.
It is utterly heartrending.

[Marz]

it doesnt sound like that to me
i didn't think  of putting the suntitles on! might so that next time
thanks anyway

marz, I know what you're talking about-most people don't hear the point you are talking about, right before the kiss. The allright's come after the kiss. I listend to that moment for a year, before giving up. Another poster and I narrowed it down to what sounds like, 'time ta...' do something. It's something you have to hear over the darned music, and I know exactly the point you are talking about. But I've had company at my house who heard other things, they had not heard before, but not that moment. It is weird how clear it is, that he says something,  on my DVD, but no one can understand it. One theory was that it was Ang Lee whispering off-sides direction, that got picked up by the sound man.SO glad another person has heard it! Now if we can just figure it out....

no problem, at least im not going mad
he def mumbles something!!!!