Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together

[CANSTANDIT]

For me, the answer lies in the necessity of the torquing-Jack kind of forced Ennis's hand and Ennis pushed Jack into it, with August. They needed a certain outcome-things had to be better, or at least not worse. I think it is the afterthought of the DE that alters that outcome for Jack. But at the time, there is an almost desperate clinging to the idea of not losing each other, of keeping the status quo, once Jack spoke the quit threat out loud-did I make sense? Gotta go to dinner.

Later.

[Ministering angel]

They torqued things back almost to where they had been - but there's a gap, and for Jack that gap, that open space,  is maybe between what he tried to believe about the Dozy Embrace and what he now knows. And there's nothing he can do about it. He can't fix it so he has to stand it. Let be, let be.

[CANSTANDIT]

For me, I find it critical for Ennis to say that he can't stand it anymore, as he told Jack very tellingly at the reunion that they HAD to stand it, for as long as they could ride it.  Ennis had a plan at the reunion, a way to deal with the situation.  After 16 years or so, he's gotten to the point where he can't stand it anymore.  It's critical, for me, that he says this.  Bookends, of course.  He set up rules and they're impossible for him to stick to.

If that means that he wants to change their relationship (I don't think he can) or that he is trying to express the total frustration, his feelings as best he can - that's another discussion.  Whenever I see this scene in the film, I think of the scene by the fire, of course.  It would be so lovely if he meant that it was time to fix it as he couldn't stand it any more, but I see it as an expression of frustration and futility.  He is a man with a problem with no solution.  Not for him, anyway.  Hence the look we get from Jack after he remembers the dozy embrace.

If this has been discussed or said here before, I apologize.  I haven't been following along for awhile.   :-[

Hi, Tammy.....I bet there has been alot that has not been said before; we just think we've said it all over here!!

I think I mentioned above a point that puts us in agreement, actually, on your idea of Ennis being a man with a problem and no solution: I think too it is a cry for help to a degree.

What I find interesting is how this differs from the SS, in that we don't have such a forthcoming Ennis. I think the filmmakers have interpreted his non-verbal collapse in the SS with that line, 'I honestly can't stand this anymore Jack.' I don't know that that is the case with SS Ennis-? I think he actually could stand the status quo-it was the only way for him. What he can't stand it Jack stepping out of it. For when Jack more or less, captulated, ie, steps out of the truck and goes to him, he stands right back up. The film plays this differently, and I think the impact is quite different, IMO.

thoughts?

[Ministering angel]

I've been thinking about the film visuals. Tammy, as you say, Ennis has a problem without a solution. That's a pretty strong point. While many people think he should have just overcome his problems and made a life with Jack, AP made it well-nigh impossible for him to do. So when he is faced with Jack's anger and frustration, he really has nowhere to go. His fine balancing act (small torso on long caliper legs, his "non-queer" ongoing sexual relationship, his need v. his fear and shame, etc. - all the things that come out in his dreams later, with the can balanced on the log) is disturbed and he is literally brought to his knees. (A nice pair with the image of him getting to his knees in FNIT.)

In contrast the film has a more dynamic argument in which they reflect the first fight. Jack injures Ennis then goes to comfort him in both scenes, only to be rebuffed. I feel the line "I can't stand this any more" is partly an allusion to the image of Ennis hitting the ground on his knees. Thus while retaining the reflection of the first fight they also incorporate the idea of Ennis literally and metaphorically not being able to stand the situation. And the situation seems to be the irreconcilable drives of love and fear or need and shame, however one wishes to view it - Ennis's impossible dichotomy.

One thing about the film is that it includes the "can't stand it" line three times - the reunion, the night before the last fight and the last fight. Since the line about whipping babies wouldn't mean anything in the film, Jack says he misses Ennis so much he can hardly stand it, thus directly contrasting his needs with Ennis's. At the end of sixteen years, neither of them can stand it and yet their needs can't be reconciled, i.e. they still can't fix it satisfactorily. What I don't like about this triple use in the film is that it seems to say that Jack's needs are ignored in favour of Ennis's.

Once again, it all comes down to the torquing and what was said or tacitly agreed upon or whatever. In both story and film Ennis clearly believes things will continue roughly as they have before, and Jack goes through some serious emotional reassessment, but the film does seem to push the "Quit" line more than the finely balanced story. Thus film Jack finds a way to fix it, something I don't think story Jack is truly able to do.

As chance would have it, last night I found a quote by Jake about his character:

                       "Annie actually wrote a note in the limited edition of
                        the story she gave me saying that the name of my
                        character Jack Twist actually refers to the strength a
                        rodeo rider must have in his legs to hold on to a bull,
                        and that it is symbolic of the strength you need to hold
                        on to something you truly believe in that makes you feel
                        alive."
(The article is here.)

It's the last part - "that makes you feel alive" - that caught my eye. I do think that story Jack lost the will to live, whereas film Jack at least may have been able to have a crack at an alternative life, or at least that's how the film tends to lean (slightly).

Actually, having written all this, I'm now wondering quite what the film is driving at. If Ennis can't stand the status quo, in what way does he decide to continue it? He must decide to do so since he sends the DECEASED postcard, so having collapsed and verbalised that he can't stand it, he then continues standing it. The story doesn't have the verbalising and therefore we can accommodate the idea of Ennis regaining his balance and continuing on with the status quo. What brings him to his knees are the conflicting emotions of fear and desire, and he can happily continue to balance these things so long as Jack continues to turn up a couple of times a year.

Gosh, what am I saying? Story Ennis falls because the status quo is disturbed; film Ennis falls because he can't handle the status quo. Maybe. Film Ennis has a clearer course of development whereas story Ennis changes little, if at all, between the reunion and the last fight. He finds that "good enough place" and there he props for 16 years. The film, as we all know, spreads out the drama of the motel bed across the rest of the film and thus alters Ennis's mindset at the last fight.

[CANSTANDIT]

If I may:

its key to determine what the "this" is in, "I honestly can't stand this anymore, Jack."

Is it really the relationship or the strain on him? Or is it Jack's revelations? Could Ennis also be saying, 'This needs to go back on the shelf. I can't stand examining it'?? This was actually something we considereed way back when, but I don't recall anyone coming up with a definitive idea about it....I think most of us assumed he was referring to the relationship itself.

But my gut tells me he just can't stand looking at the truth.

[Dal]

~ Story Ennis falls because the status quo is disturbed;~

~he just can't stand looking at the truth.

I.e. 

[Ministering angel]

Get that man outta here!

[o2binla]

If they hadn't gotten into an argument -- that is, if Jack hadn't been angry about August being off -- it seems Ennis would have been okay.  IOW, no talk of him not being able to stand it anymore.  As long as Jack goes along, Ennis can maintain. 

[CANSTANDIT]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I agree...no August issue, and nothing would've changed-yet.

[o2binla]

How long do you think Ennis would have kept up the arrangement they had for sixteen years?  Seems like he would have gone on forever -- long after he and Jack were too old and infirm to rough it in cold weather! -- had Jack not pushed back. 

Then again, how many years until Jack would have pointed out that sneaking around in the back of nowhere was just no longer necessary -- 1994?  1998?  2012? 

[Ministering angel]

Ennis would have gone on for ever, I suspect. He would have been immune from any advances in thinking (assuming there WERE any in Wyoming) as any gay talk wouldn't have been relevant to him. It couldn't continue, of course, because Jack was always the one behind Ennis's changes and Jack would have eventually jacked up, if not in August then in November, or the following year, or ...

[CANSTANDIT]

The absence of the August issue would not alter Jack's growing disillusion..I agree, it was a matter of time for him. For ennis, I do think as O2binLA said, it could have gone on forever. To me the status quo had solidified for Ennis, as had Jack's firm belief in the promise of the dozy embrace.

[Dagonet]

This one was rattling around in my head while I was out walking last night--sorry if it's been covered before. . .

Do we think either Ennis or Jack realizes that Ennis' August cancellation would be the twentieth anniversary of the first August they lost on Brokeback?

Interesting that this time it's Ennis who is/appears to be indifferent, and Jack who gets upset and throws the (figurative) punch. 


Cheers,

Dagonet

[CANSTANDIT]

This one was rattling around in my head while I was out walking last night--sorry if it's been covered before. . .

Do we think either Ennis or Jack realizes that Ennis' August cancellation would be the twentieth anniversary of the first August they lost on Brokeback?

Interesting that this time it's Ennis who is/appears to be indifferent, and Jack who gets upset and throws the (figurative) punch. 


Cheers,

Dagonet

Hi, Dagonet-just dropping in for a bit.

I don't know that either of them is aware of the coincidence at that moment-nor might it do anything other than make Jack more bitter. I do think we are supposed to 'get' the point, though, as readers/viewers. Does something tell you they are aware?

[Dagonet]

Do we think either Ennis or Jack realizes that Ennis' August cancellation would be the twentieth anniversary of the first August they lost on Brokeback?

Interesting that this time it's Ennis who is/appears to be indifferent, and Jack who gets upset and throws the (figurative) punch. 

Hi, Dagonet-just dropping in for a bit.

I don't know that either of them is aware of the coincidence at that moment-nor might it do anything other than make Jack more bitter. I do think we are supposed to 'get' the point, though, as readers/viewers. Does something tell you they are aware?

Heya CANSTANDIT,

I agree that Ennis and Jack probably don't realize the significance of the timing; certainly Ennis doesn't seem the type to focus on dates in that way, and--as you say--if it occurred to Jack it would likely only increase his distress.  Or perhaps Jack does know on some level, and that's part of what spurs him to speak out. 

Do we know (or can we guess with some certainty) when exactly Ennis and Jack went up to Brokeback as Aguirre's employees?  Would it have been May?  Could this final scene be taking place on the twentieth anniversary of the FNIT?  Or close to it? 

Cheers,

Dagonet