Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together

[BookJunkie]

Hello BookJunkie. Please write more!

Hi

Well to be honest, you put it better than I ever could in your last post on this thread.  I believe Ennis was thinking of a time of innocence, when love was not something for him to feel guilty about.  But as an adult, he does feel guilty about his love for Jack, because he has always been made to feel that the love between two men is wrong; I think he feels confused that something that feels absolutely right in his heart, feels absolutely wrong in his head.  He knows that love itself is not wrong, but he always expected to find it with a woman and family - but Alma does not fulfill him in the way that only Jack can. 

That's basically what I'm trying to say (hope it makes sense)!, although I'm having trouble expressing myself here, because thoughts keep popping into my head - this is such an interesting thread!

[CANSTANDIT]

yeah, keep em coming, those thoughts.....! Welcome, too.

[Dal]

Welcome to the thread, BookJunkie.  A pleasant habit, books!

[BookJunkie]

Thank you - this is a very friendly place...I may get addicted!

[Jack_Nasty]

Hi BookJunkie,
I think you perfectly captured my view about the way Ennis feels about his relationship with Jack. [Quoting your lines: But as an adult, he does feel guilty about his love for Jack, because he has always been made to feel that the love between two men is wrong; I think he feels confused that something that feels absolutely right in his heart, feels absolutely wrong in his head.  He knows that love itself is not wrong, but he always expected to find it with a woman and family - but Alma does not fulfill him in the way that only Jack can].

To back that up, on the 2nd_night_in_tent scene, study Ennis' body language sitting by the fire, before standing and regretfully going into the tent, that tells you all u need to know.

On the other hand, THE DOZY EMBRACE to some extent captures the way Jack feel about his relation with Ennis. I think at the time of Ennis' departure on the last scene Jack SUBCONCIOUSLY compares the relationship with the dozy embrace. It about sharing a pricless moment with someone you love, he doesnt need to try too hard, just being there makes it feel perfect. You wish the moment lasts for ever and suddenly it ends (Jack said it's like seeing the Pope). You want more and you wonder if he does, you are baffled on how the other party can afford to stand the special moment coming to and end. (He turns around staring at him leaving on his horse, hoping he'd look back but oddly enough he doesnt). Back to reality, his car pulls away and he still doesnt look back, and he wonders: "does he really want this as much as i do?"

[we remember him saying that he unlike Ennis cant make it on a couple of high altitude fucks every one in a while].

THE DOZY EMBRACE dream sums it all up for Jack.

[Marz]

i think this is the scene when ennis realizes that hes in love with jack and its true love,not the same as he had with alma hes got nothing left by that point he tried so hard to have a normal life with alma, getting married, having children and having a 'normal' family life because he belives thats what hes ment  to do, i think hes jealous of jack because jack has hes marriage and his son and i think ennis wishes him and jack were together alot before that, years before infact and ennis is thinking about what could of been,they could of been together,happy and not be in such a mess and niether of them would have a broken heart

[CANSTANDIT]

Hi BookJunkie,
I think you perfectly captured my view about the way Ennis feels about his relationship with Jack. [Quoting your lines: But as an adult, he does feel guilty about his love for Jack, because he has always been made to feel that the love between two men is wrong; I think he feels confused that something that feels absolutely right in his heart, feels absolutely wrong in his head.  He knows that love itself is not wrong, but he always expected to find it with a woman and family - but Alma does not fulfill him in the way that only Jack can].

To back that up, on the 2nd_night_in_tent scene, study Ennis' body language sitting by the fire, before standing and regretfully going into the tent, that tells you all u need to know.

On the other hand, THE DOZY EMBRACE to some extent captures the way Jack feel about his relation with Ennis. I think at the time of Ennis' departure on the last scene Jack SUBCONCIOUSLY compares the relationship with the dozy embrace. It about sharing a pricless moment with someone you love, he doesnt need to try too hard, just being there makes it feel perfect. You wish the moment lasts for ever and suddenly it ends (Jack said it's like seeing the Pope). You want more and you wonder if he does, you are baffled on how the other party can afford to stand the special moment coming to and end. (He turns around staring at him leaving on his horse, hoping he'd look back but oddly enough he doesnt). Back to reality, his car pulls away and he still doesnt look back, and he wonders: "does he really want this as much as i do?"

[we remember him saying that he unlike Ennis cant make it on a couple of high altitude fucks every one in a while].

THE DOZY EMBRACE dream sums it all up for Jack.

Very nice, direct interpretation Jack_Nasty-Kudos.

[Ministering angel]

Reposted from Character of Jack thread where it is not on topic.

Sandy, would you care to explain the linguistic reasoning behind AP's use of the construction "... he did not want to see nor feel ..."? Should this not be "... see OR feel..."? He did not want to see, and neither did he want to feel, that it was Jack.

Is there any linguistic justification for the double negative, did not...nor...?

[CANSTANDIT]

Reposted from Character of Jack thread where it is not on topic.

Sandy, would you care to explain the linguistic reasoning behind AP's use of the construction "... he did not want to see nor feel ..."? Should this not be "... see OR feel..."? He did not want to see, and neither did he want to feel, that it was Jack.

Is there any linguistic justification for the double negative, did not...nor...?

Wouldn't it be, properly, either " he wanted to neither see nor feel" or "he did not want to see or feel"? yes, you're right.....It shows how she uses the language, maybe, in the venacular, ie, incorrectly?  Like J or E might mistakenly talk that way....Des has pointed out a number of examples on the other thread. If we are bringing up 'then', as a usage issue, then nor/nor is another usage issue, as well, as it might also alter the meaning of the paragraph, it is is not being read the same way for everyone.

.

[CANSTANDIT]

Speaking of the last scene-have we had enough discussion about at what point Ennis may know the RNW is the RN? I know we talked about it in the Q thread, I think,,but I keep wondering. What do you see as the earliest possible moment? It is with the seemingly nervous laugh and the 'you probly deserve it' or is that just Ennis joking, and feeling weird, because Jack is cheating on him, but it should be irrelevant because it is a woman?  Is it possible Ennis is thinking, 'you WHORE!' or 'you CAD!' that sort of thing?? and not even entertaining it being a man? I don't mean jealous-I mean judgemental of Jack's sex drive.

[Dal]

Wouldn't it be, properly, either " he wanted to neither see nor feel"

Owey!  That infinitive must be in a world of pain.  Put it back together quick, somebody.

[CANSTANDIT]

Ah, the split infinitive? hey it's  getting used, right or wrong, to illustrate my point, that a certain vernacular is perhaps, being used. 

[Desecra]

It might be possible to use 'or' or 'nor', but 'or' sounds better to me.  I suppose it's a shortening of 'he did not want to see, nor did he want to feel that it was Jack he held'.   

[Dal]

Ah, the split infinitive? hey it's  getting used, right or wrong,

By people  one prefers not to be associated with with whom one prefers not to be associated with, perhaps.  I wouldn't know.

[CANSTANDIT]

Ah, the split infinitive? hey it's  getting used, right or wrong,

By people  one prefers not to be associated with with whom one prefers not to be associated with, perhaps.  I wouldn't know.

I know exactly what you mean.