All other scenes including truck scenes, Thanksgiving scenes, alley scenes, and other

[donna]

LMAO!  Thanks everyone.

Based on all of your input, I ended up going with the gum. 

[fofol]

Thanks Tony and Garyd.  

I understand the rationale behind the gum sales.

But wouldn't the boy be speaking Spanish?

To me, it sounds like he is saying a four syllable word twice, maybe something like- "Necesitas, necesitas!"

He could be selling condoms to the prostitutes.

It doesn't sound like "Chiclets" to me.

Is it in the screenplay book?

Close captioning?

Anyone?

   The boy would be speaking English because, as every bordertown Mexican-speaker knows, gringos are too lazy, stupid, or mean to learn to speak Spanish.

[AustinGirl]

I see the boy as the salesperson for the prostitutes aka their pimp.

[Marge_Innavera]

  The boy would be speaking English because, as every bordertown Mexican-speaker knows, gringos are too lazy, stupid, or mean to learn to speak Spanish.

But their money is good enough, and in the movie the role was played by one of the crew at any rate.  Besides, prostitution is a service industry if ever there was one.  Not good business to be unable to speak a client's language.

[AustinGirl]

Lazy embrace scene.

Has anyone connected the scene in the b/r where Alma comes up behind Ennis and puts her arms around him with the lazy dose embrace?  Alma is behind Ennis with her arms around him whispering in his hear. She is manipulating him into moving into town for the girls, etc. She probably wants to move into town just for the convenience of doing laundry in the machines downstairs instead of having to hand wash the clothes herself. Notice you never see the girls playing with any other kids. Sorry but I don't like Alma.

Ennis is probably sick of hearing her nagging and can only think of Jack.

When Ennis is in the lazy embrace with Jack he is showing so much love and affection to Jack it is almost overwhelming. He even hums to him. He would never "nag" Jack like Alma does to him.

[morrobay]

in the short story, Annie refers to it as the dozy embrace, in DCF-speak, the DE.  And this is the best youtube video about it, imo.

In an interview, AP mentioned that she listened to Spiritual by Pat Metheny over and over, as she tried to get every word of the DE perfect, and thankfully someone took the time and patience to put her words, and the movie sequence, to the music that allowed her to create this masterpiece....

eta: it makes me cry every single time....even this time...
,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxW0npSi9U0

[Sandy]

Lazy embrace scene.

Has anyone connected the scene in the b/r where Alma comes up behind Ennis and puts her arms around him with the lazy dose embrace?  Alma is behind Ennis with her arms around him whispering in his hear. She is manipulating him into moving into town for the girls, etc. She probably wants to move into town just for the convenience of doing laundry in the machines downstairs instead of having to hand wash the clothes herself. Notice you never see the girls playing with any other kids. Sorry but I don't like Alma.

Ennis is probably sick of hearing her nagging and can only think of Jack.

When Ennis is in the lazy embrace with Jack he is showing so much love and affection to Jack it is almost overwhelming. He even hums to him. He would never "nag" Jack like Alma does to him.

Very interesting observation. I don't think Alma's embrace in is the short story. Ang Lee could have interpolated it into the film to compare and contrast Ennis's treatment of Alma and jack.

[garyd]

Very interesting observation. I don't think Alma's embrace in is the short story. Ang Lee could have interpolated it into the film to compare and contrast Ennis's treatment of Alma and jack.

In the SS, Alma asks Ennis to move into town as she is sitting on his lap with her arms around his neck.  It is the segment which turns into the sex during which Ennis digitally manipulates her to orgasm and then turns her and engages in anal intercourse. If anyone is being manipulated, even abused, it is Alma.  AND, this is exactly the same sort of manipulation Ennis employs with Jack in all aspects of their relationship.  ("short leash"  etc.)

I, for one, have never understood the antipathy held by some for Alma.  Ennis insists on living in the middle of nowhere, he refuses to get or keep a job that might adequately financially provide for his family, and he appears to prefer sexual activities which his wife "hates".  And some think Alma is a "nag"?

[morrobay]

we, uh, want them to be together..........fuck alma, even though it ain't her fault

[garyd]

we, uh, want them to be together..........fuck alma, even though it ain't her fault

LOL, yeah I get it.
Alma, however, gets out of the way fairly early in the 20 some year long relationship between Jack and Ennis so I have a difficult time blaming Alma for much of anything as it relates to Jack and Ennis "being together'. 
(I can see blaming the WIND maybe, oops wrong thread)  ) but not Alma. 

[Desecra]

In the short story, Alma wants to be near a clinic because of their daughter's asthma.

I agree with Garyd - Alma isn't the reason they're apart.   There's no change at all after the divorce.  There's a lot of unhappiness in the catalogue of reasons that led up to the divorce.  Ennis won't take a better paying job (because he wants jobs he can drop to see Jack), his refusal to have sex (because he's gay ... and seems to be having an affair with his friend), his refusal to take family vacations (because he sees Jack instead), the kiss, etc.  She was wronged.

[morrobay]

yeah yeah she was wronged next

[kathy]

yeah yeah she was wronged next

Ditto.

[AustinGirl]

Throwing of the watch and the keys.

In the beginning Aguirre throws the watch to Ennis "as if he wasn't worth standing up for".

When the new baby is home Newsome throws the keys to Jack to get the presents out of the car as if Jack is "not worth standing up for". Jack looks on at the new baby, Lureen and the in-laws. He knows he does not belong there. He is just an "employee" of the family. Just a guy to produce children and sell combines. Although Alma loved Ennis in the beginning he was just a guy to pay the bills, to work on the road crew, help run the farm and help with the kids.

You can feel the misery of Jack and Ennis's mundane existance both before and after they met.   Everyone in their lives probably loved them but considered them "not worth standing up for". And this was BEFORE anyone knew they were gay.

[Ennis Del Mark]

In the movie, we get the two thanksgiving scenes back to back so I'm assuming they are from the same year? Since E & J both have cathartic explosions (J much more than Ennis of course) I'm wondering if there was something cut from the film or in an earlier script draft that had the men meet shortly before this and something didn't go well--the fear of Ennis for intimacy and becoming a couple, for example.  It might explain why both men seem to have barely controlled rage issues that come out at the holiday, when both are with family and probably not with whom they'd like. 

Another question:  what about birthdays and Christmas?  You think E & J exchanged cards?  I can see Jack doing so, especially after Ennis' divorce.  Holidays are always hard when you're forced by convention to be with people you may not want to be with.

Mark
 
P.S.  If this has been answered/discussed earlier on these pages can someone tell me where?  Thank you.