Last Scene ("I swear" scene)

[garyd]

Didn't get any answers to my previous question as whether anyone here has had relatives who were cremated buried camp-toilet style; but I didn't expect to.  

Thought about responding but didn't.  So...both my parents died in the last several years and both were cremated and buried in urns in a columbarium. 
I think it would require quite a bit of legal maneuvering to have them disinterred.  I am not at all familiar with the laws and customs of late 1980's Wyoming.  However, I do not view BBM as any sort of hero quest so I do not consider "I swear" to be a pledge to honor Jack's desire to have his ashes spread on the mountain. Actually I find the possibility to be quite banal in light of the exquisite thematic arc of the story. 

Gary, I'm as uninterested as you are in taking a trip through literary criticism hell, even the first ring.  

I was, as is often the case, being somewhat ironic.  I would, of course, be quite interested in taking a trip through the first, or even several, rings of literary analysis/criticism hell.  I am, however, quite particular as to the selection of my fellow underworld travelers. 

[Marge_Innavera]

I think it would require quite a bit of legal maneuvering to have them disinterred.  I am not at all familiar with the laws and customs of late 1980's Wyoming.

Since Lightning Flat is in the most remote area of the most sparsely populated state in the US, and since Jack's ashes (half of them anyway) were interred in a family plot, it's quite unlikely anyone would even know if they were disinterred.  Lightning Flat was almost a ghost town when Jack would have been a child.

However, I do not view BBM as any sort of hero quest so I do not consider "I swear" to be a pledge to honor Jack's desire to have his ashes spread on the mountain. Actually I find the possibility to be quite banal in light of the exquisite thematic arc of the story.  I was, as is often the case, being somewhat ironic.

Not sure how this morphed into a discussion of BBM being any kind of hero's quest story; it ends much too early for that.  

However, I'd be curious as to how you might have gotten the impression that I claimed this has anything to do with "I swear"; you won't find one.  In fact, I stated what my interpretation of that line was just a page or two back.  I just find a dismissal of the possibility of Ennis eventually carrying out Jack's wishes as projection based on wishful thinking, and more than a little odd. To amend my comments earlier, occasionally people are cremated and the ashes buried without a container. But that's done when the person has requested it, usually with the thought of being returned to the earth entirely; and Jack evidently hadn't made that request: he wanted them scattered.

As for the references to fanfiction in the recent discussion are another issue, and can better be addressed in the Slash Discussion thread.  I'm sure more than a few people there would be willing to discuss that.

[garyd]

Since Lightning Flat is in the most remote area of the most sparsely populated state in the US, and since Jack's ashes (half of them anyway) were interred in a family plot, it's quite unlikely anyone would even know if they were disinterred.  Lightning Flat was almost a ghost town when Jack would have been a child.

Jack did not die as a child.  

Not sure how this morphed into a discussion of BBM being any kind of hero's quest story; it ends much too early for that.  

Ennis taking on the scattering of ashes bears a very faint resemblance to elements of a hero quest.  I sensed that you may think Ennis assumes this as some sort of mission subsequent to OMT refusing to let him do it initially.  I apparently sensed incorrectly.

However, I'd be curious as to how you might have gotten the impression that I claimed this has anything to do with "I swear"; you won't find one.

I guess because it is in the "I swear " thread.  Again, my bad. Anyway, you have posted several times that this is not your interpretation of "I  swear".  I understand that.  You have simply stated, I think, that it is possible that Ennis might have had the opportunity to scatter the ashes subsequent to the demise of OMT.  I agree, it IS possible.  I DO NOT agree, however, that such an act, no matter how possible or probable,  has anything to do with Ennis' utterance of "I swear".  

 I just find a dismissal of the possibility of Ennis eventually carrying out Jack's wishes as projection based on wishful thinking, and more than a little odd.

I don't know what you mean here and I have learned my lesson in attempting to assume or interpret your intent.

As for the references to fanfiction in the recent discussion are another issue, and can better be addressed in the Slash Discussion thread.  I'm sure more than a few people there would be willing to discuss that.

I have not nor do I ever invoke fanfic. It is an acquired taste which I have yet to acquire.

[Frankons]

I know, this topic have 120 days inactive, but i want to give my opinion, i'm not very good in english, my native language is spanish but i will try my best.

My deduction about the last words of Ennis is "Jack, i swear... that i will not avoid more events with the people that care me", i think on this when Alma Jr told to his father "i will marry" and Ennis decide to go to the wedding of his daughter, sending the work to hell.

[Marge_Innavera]

I know, this topic have 120 days inactive, but i want to give my opinion, i'm not very good in english, my native language is spanish but i will try my best.

My deduction about the last words of Ennis is "Jack, i swear... that i will not avoid more events with the people that care me", i think on this when Alma Jr told to his father "i will marry" and Ennis decide to go to the wedding of his daughter, sending the work to hell.

People have come up with a number of interpretations of what Ennis' "I swear" is, but one of them could certainly be a resolve to not disappoint people who care about him in the future.

[BlueJeanDarlin]

I like to think that "Jack, I swear..." actually means "Jack, I swear if I could do it all over again, I would've done it differently." I see it as a way for Ennis to tell Jack that he loves him. Always has loved him, since their time on the mountain, and always will love him, now and forever, no matter what. But of course, it's too late...
There is such a powerful loneliness in that scene. My heart breaks every time.

I've never thought of that scene in any other way. But maybe I'm just too much of a romantic.

[janjo]

Jack I swear................................ I always loved you....................I wish I'd told you....................I didn't know until you died.

[BlueJeanDarlin]

Jack I swear................................ I always loved you....................I wish I'd told you....................I didn't know until you died.

Yes. Exactly.
Heartbreaking.

[kathy]

I like to think that "Jack, I swear..." actually means "Jack, I swear if I could do it all over again, I would've done it differently." I see it as a way for Ennis to tell Jack that he loves him. Always has loved him, since their time on the mountain, and always will love him, now and forever, no matter what. But of course, it's too late...
There is such a powerful loneliness in that scene. My heart breaks every time.

I've never thought of that scene in any other way. But maybe I'm just too much of a romantic.

From a fellow romantic - that is the way I feel also.

kathy   

[Vlad]

Ahh, the "I swear" scene... Thats the most difficult one. I must admit that i havent read all posts in this thread but I do agree with some comments here like the one Janjo maid: Jack I swear................................ I always loved you....................I wish I'd told you....................I didn't know until you died. This scene always has an impact on me, im breathing slowly and not blinking every time i watch this scene. It is soo fullfiled with meaning and emotions. First couple of times i watched it was a definite crying season, im just too emotional,  I couldnt help my self, too much for me.
I am also of that meaning that Ennis wanted to say that he loves him, thats it, with no continuing or more added text. No adds, no complicated thoughts... He just never said to him how much he loves him and thats what he wanted to say when he looked at the card and closed the closet.

Poor Ennis, i think that he was soo closed to Jack because he was always remembering what his father showed him while he was little, i have a feeling that he is continuosly revinding to that moment and that it shocks him. I think thats the reason why was Ennis like that to Jack and why he never accepted his plans. He was just continuosly under some strange but "strong" presure.

Also, i have read on page 2 i think that someone said that until Ennis burns the Jack's shirt he will never continue with his life. I completely agree on that one. It is simple as that, as long as he continue to hold it in the closet he will never, ever continue to live his life, not to talk about meeting someone new.
And knowing Ennis he would never burn it, im also sure in that, he couldnt alow himself to burn something that was of his only one Jack who wored it, on which he swept his fear, his tears, his love and his blood. 

[BlueJeanDarlin]

BURN the shirt? 

No. No way. Ennis would never do that. Jack's shirt is almost sacred to him, I'm sure.

[kathy]

BURN the shirt? 

No. No way. Ennis would never do that. Jack's shirt is almost sacred to him, I'm sure.

Never.  No way ever. 
I have to admit though that I just can't recall anything re burning the shirt(s). 

kathy

[janjo]

Thank you for your appreciative comments, Vlad, and welcome to the forum.

[Vlad]

Thank you for your appreciative comments, Vlad, and welcome to the forum.

Thanks again janjo, youre really cool and im just writing whats on my mind, not less, not more... Want to share with you guys.

[mtkny]

I saw this film again after 6-7 years later.

People talking about parallel with Alma Jr. marriage and her words  " Yes he loves me", but don't forget Ennis met Jack AND married to Alma when he was 19.

Like Alma Jr. believes that Kurt and she is in love, probably 19 years old Ennis was sure that he was in love with Alma... Without knowing what the LOVE is.

I think Ennis loved Alma as same way as just another guy like Ennis loves a woman, but his desire to be with Jack was stronger. Maybe the desire was stronger because they were never able to share a life together.  Ennis is very pure and genuine character, but I don't think he understood what was happening to him when he was 19. Or even he knew it, he couldn't admit he was in love with Jack because of his internal/external punishment and fear.

I also sensed that when Alma Jr. said "Yes, he loves me", he felt envy and sadness that he couldn't admit relationship with Jack like Alma Jr. 

So maybe the line after  "Jack, I swear..." is "I will be true to myself..." or "I will be with myself like you wanted to be...? "

As we all posted here there are 100s of ideas coming out, so the open ended "Jack, I swear..." was perfect line for the film. Ann Lee is one of truly genius director who hasn't lost his integrity and creativity even after he became  Hollywood movie director. Not many director can work like him. And in person, he is such a down to earth,  honest, sincere and wise human being.