How Brokeback Affected Me--continued

[BeBeYourLove]

It was the tire iron.

I can't convince myself that it was though! In a way I feel it would fit in far to well (and in fact compliment Ennis' decision in not wanting to lead an 'open' life with Jack) if Jack was murdered. Watching the scene where Lureen is telling Jack what happened, there seems to be a certain truth in what she says, but maybe I'm being deluded. I felt that the real reason she got all teary eyed was of course because she knew of Ennis and Jack, but I just can't say for certain that what Ennis envisioned was true. He was too far in the closet. I'm babbling so I'll stop.  

Hope I didn't stupidly double post this.

[BayCityJohn]

I can't convince myself that it was though! In a way I feel it would fit in far to well (and in fact compliment Ennis' decision in not wanting to lead an 'open' life with Jack) if Jack was murdered. Watching the scene where Lureen is telling Jack what happened, there seems to be a certain truth in what she says, but maybe I'm being deluded. I felt that the real reason she got all teary eyed was of course because she knew of Ennis and Jack, but I just can't say for certain that what Ennis envisioned was true. He was too far in the closet. I'm babbling so I'll stop.  

Don't stop!!!

We do have a topic for The Phone Call here:  http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=178.0

[janjo]

Annie Proulx says in the short story that "Ennis didn' hear about the accident for months."

[BayCityJohn]

Annie Proulx says in the short story that "Ennis didn' hear about the accident for months."

oh, like AP knows     

[janjo]

John!

[andy]

I can't convince myself that it was though! In a way I feel it would fit in far to well (and in fact compliment Ennis' decision in not wanting to lead an 'open' life with Jack) if Jack was murdered. Watching the scene where Lureen is telling Jack what happened, there seems to be a certain truth in what she says, but maybe I'm being deluded. I felt that the real reason she got all teary eyed was of course because she knew of Ennis and Jack, but I just can't say for certain that what Ennis envisioned was true. He was too far in the closet. I'm babbling so I'll stop.  

Hope I didn't stupidly double post this.

Do we need to know something that is unknowable? And if it is unknowable, then we can never have any peace over it. The point is that Ennis believed it, and I see that as the overriding legacy of this tragic story. IMHO. 

[BayCityJohn]

Annie Proulx says in the short story that "Ennis didn' hear about the accident for months."

http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=178.msg1848292#msg1848292

[BeBeYourLove]

Annie Proulx says in the short story that "Ennis didn' hear about the accident for months."

But even that has a certain ambiguity about it ... I just found this fanvid on youtube, (oh god, now I know I'm in deep) and wanted to share it. I love the song and it doesn't include any of the sad bits!   Again, sorry if there's a section for this, but at work so really don't have time to search the forums.

"Do we need to know something that is unknowable? And if it is unknowable, then we can never have any peace over it. The point is that Ennis believed it, and I see that as the overriding legacy of this tragic story. IMHO."

Didn't want to post twice. I never thought of it that way. I guess the fact that we'll  never know means that I should see it like that ... of course it would deepen the tragedy factor at the same time too. Or would it? Maybe the fact that getting killed by a 'car' (I've forgotten how it happened, but I mean the way in which Lureen explained) would be more of a kick in the teeth for Ennis? The risk might have paid off, and it deepens one of the themes that you should be who you are and not be oppressed by anybody ... there are 101 other reasons for which that 'DECEASED' card could come through, and often not the one you're assuming, or the one you're scared of most.

Now I really should get back to working!  

[janjo]

In reply to John's anwer in "The Phone Call" thread.


But he didn't know anything. He only knows what we know, which is what Lureen says happened, and Ennis has to believe it was the "tyre iron" because it justifies his behaviour over the past twenty years.
If it is really what happened it is a little too "pat" really.

Having said all that I think it is each one of us to decide.

[kathy]

We all know what the film "is"....but I think we watch it some times just in the hope...that there may be a miracle of a chance ...that possibly...just possibly that this time when we watch it....it may have the ending we all wanted.     


Jack:" You know it could be like this...just like this always.
Ennis:" Yeah..how yer figure that?
Jack:"What if you and me...had a little ranch somewhere,little cow and calf operation. Be a sweet life.

(Ennis looks at jack with misty eyes)

Ennis: " Jack..I don't want to spend 'nother day with out ya I just can't stand it no more Jack. Hold me ...don't let go.

Now thats what we wanted....perhaps thats why we/I watch the film over and over again.

That's what I always wanted too.  Sigh...
kathy   

[suelyblu]

We really are of the same mind Kathy.  x

[kathy]

We really are of the same mind Kathy.  x

HI suely --
I think so too - except for the thing about Jack in another post. 
But - I believe we can differ on something.  That's what the forums are for!
kathy    
p.s.  We do love our boys...and BBM so much.

[suelyblu]

No, no just mind was wondering in the other post. I just write what flashes through my mind and then I find myself in hot water....again !!Also was a retaliation to what some one else had said.

I love our boys.Adore them. I would defend all that they stand for till my last breath. I loved the characters in the film Jack and Ennis. I love Jake and Heath is just something else to me.  OK ? If they cut my heart out BBM would be engraved on it.

[kathy]

No, no just mind was wondering in the other post. I just write what flashes through my mind and then I find myself in hot water....again !!Also was a retaliation to what some one else had said.

I love our boys.Adore them. I would defend all that they stand for till my last breath. I loved the characters in the film Jack and Ennis. I love Jake and Heath is just something else to me.  OK ? If they cut my heart out BBM would be engraved on it.

Me too.  Mine was a retaliation to what someone else had said too.  And - I agree so much with your post above, I could have written it myself!

take care, from your friend
kathy   

[kathy]

It was the tire iron.     I'm with you on this, bcj. 
 
kathy