Awards Aftermath

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Looks like defamer dislikes Crash more than I do...

http://defamer.com/hollywood/cinematic-justice-dept/ill+gotten-crash-oscar-returned-to-rightful-winner-329812.php

[DanRWentzelJr]

I think its best nowdays to focus on ensuring BBM's place in cinema history.  Citizen Kane didn't need a Best Picture Oscar to be remembered and neither will Brokeback Mountain.   That doesn't excuse the Academy members who chickened out.  But it's better not to give the Academy more power than it has to determine was films have staying power.  But the Academy has unfotunately chickened out of a Best Picture Award out of fear multiple times before and no doubt will again. 

But you know what happens when people forget history.  And Brokeback fans were under some public pressure to forget it within 24 hours after the Oscars aired.  "Getting on with your life" can be quite a BOHICA* statement.


*"Bend Over, Here It Comes Again"   

I totally agree.  I'm certainly not suggesting we "forget" that homophobia cost BBM it's deserved Oscar as Best Picture.  I was simply suggesting not the least of all to myself to remember to the equally important work of promoting BBM's place in cinematic history.  We should never forget.  I know I won't.  I also won't forget how Spirit moved through this forum to create the Daily Variety Ad.

I've been going to movie screenings in the run-up to award season.  I'm not on SAG's nominating committee, but my personal pick thus far for Best SAG Ensemble so far is 3:10 to Yuma.  The supporting performances make that film alive.  I saw a screening where the writers talked up how much the actors contributed to the movie.  Most everything you see Ben Foster do as Charlie Prince is his creation.  Wonderful!   My favorite film for Best Picture is so far is "No Country for Old Men", but I haven't seen everything yet, obviously.  It's about time the Coen brothers won something.


My vow is to see ALL the nominees before I vote for anything.   Fear was a part of the homophobia that caused BBM's loss, so was ignorance part of the homophobia from many members of the Academy to didn't bother to see the movie. 

Quite frankly, I'm much more interested in who wins the critics awards this year, because at least we know they've seen the films.

I saw BBM on high-def television.  It's just glorious.  I'm really rooting for Rodrigo Prieto to win something soon.  What an phenomenal cinematographer his is.

There was an article in the LA Times today that the Paul Haggis is suing one of the producers of Crash for millions.  Man, all the producers of Crash just deserve each other.

On the Ebert & Roeper site we can go back and see the review clips of them rave about Brokeback Mountain in their original televised segment.  I know they and Oprah were Crash's biggest cheerleaders, and Roeper was aghast we just didn't roll over and take it when homophobia cost BMM the Oscar, but it's fun to go back and listen to their own words about what a great film BBM is.

I also remember my excitement the first time I saw the BBM previews, hearing those guitar chords for the first time.  What a score.  It stands up with my other favorite score, Heny Manicini's breakfast as tiffany's, where the score recreates the movie in my head as it's such an integral part of it.  Gustavo Santaollala's score was perfect.  I loved his work in Babel too.  It's funny.  People either loved or hated Babel, and I loved it.  I felt it was what Crash could have been had Crash been, well, really good.

I remember the BBMpreviews alone brought tears to my eyes then, and rewatching the previews floods my heart with memories.  Has it really been 2 years?

One difference is that I now have the most wonderful boyfriend in the whole world now. Woo Hoo!   

I also just shot a pilot.  Wish me luck!

I'm still so glad this board has been and is still here.  It will always have a special place in my heart and was an integral part of how this movie affected my life, including all of you for being part of it.

Thanks, Dave Cullen!

[DanRWentzelJr]

I also think the LA Times piece on the BBM loss was important, and so glad that it was written. I saved that one.

One of the things so great about Ken Turan's wonderful commentary is that it came out FIRST and circulated the globe BEFORE Crash's supporters and PR team had a chance to spin it otherwise.  That's part of what pissed off Ebert and particularly Roeper.  They had no ability to control the post-show narrative, the Dave Cullen Variety Ad got more press praise than the Crash win itself it seems.  It is like everybody knew what happened, but we were supposed to roll over and pretend it didn't happen.  So glad we didn't.  Ebert was far more gracious than Roeper when defending his favorite film of that year, Crash.  He was very gracious to reference our ad in a nice way.

It is funny that Lionsgate spent a fortune to win that Best Picture Oscar for Crash, was not above using homophobia to win that Best Picture Oscar, but had no strategy or money or attention geared towards spinning the aftermath of Crash's win.  Of course, they didn't expect BBM's fans and supporters to stand up for themselves, which they did with aplomb.  It just never occurred to them that BBM fans wouldn't just whimper and go away.

My top five films from last year were Little Children, United 93, Shortbus, The Lives of Others, and Babel.  Thank goodness that the Best Foreign Language Film award requires screening of all the films.  Winning that Oscar enabled the film to run in cinemas it wouldn't have screened it and allowed so many more people to see that heartwrenching film.

That's the real way to see Oscar, as a giant marketing exercise.  Sometimes the winner is because of a vote of merit, sometimes politics, sometimes marketing, sometimes business.  The Critics, and AFI, and other such organizations are concerned with film as an art form.  The guilds represent the work-a-day and more often not-working-a-day backbone of Hollywood.  The MPAA is concerned primarily with film as a business, and AMPAS was formed in 1927 by Louis B. Mayer as an organization to represent the Hollywood elite over all these other interests.

Just because a film or a nominee wins an Oscar doesn't mean, of course, that it is inherently "better" or the "best" over any other film or will be seen that way in cinematic history.  It is a useful marketing tool.  And sometimes, the Academy makes a great choice and get is as right as possible.  While I doubt the Academy bothered to see Little Children, United 93 and certainly not Shortbus, I am grateful that the Lives of Others got the boost it deserved.

[DanRWentzelJr]

Keith Olbermann had a teaser segment on a possible sequel tonight.

Personally, I think it is probably a bad idea.  It is virtually impossible to improve upon something that is aleady perfect as it is and there is always the very real risk that it may actually taint memories of the earlier product.

I'm thinking of followups like Texasville (Last Picture Show), The Two Jakes (Chinatown), The Exorcist II, A Man and a Woman Twenty Years Later, etc., movies that did nothing to enhance the earlier films (though most have been mercifully forgotten).

Some sequels do, of course, work, enhancing and deepening the original film (The Godfather II, The Empore Strikes Back), but I think those are truly the exceptions.  BBM was the perfect film at the perfect time.  I would hate to see anything tarnish the memory of that.

(I've always admired Spielberg for his staunch refusal to male a sequel to E.T., despite the tremendous monetary temptations to do so, proving that, even in Hollywood, one can still choose artistic integrity over easy cash).

My first reacation is that I would only want to see a sequel is E. Annie Proulx wrote the book version first.  Of course, the Great Creator can come through anywhere, and anyone, often through the least likely people. 

I am excited that Brokeback Mountain is being turned into an Opera by a great talent, with Annie Proulx's blessing.  The great creator has not stopped his great work through this timeless story.  Years from now, decades from now, people will see the film for the first time and say, "wow, how could I not have seen this movie before."

[graylockV]

Here's the first significant critics' awards for 2007, from The National Board of Review (NRB).   

They've been around for decades, but they aren't necessarily good at predicting the Oscars (though it is likely that the Oscar nominations for Best Picture will be from the same group that is in the NRB's Top Ten list, IMO.)

http://www.moviecitynews.com/awards/2008/critics/nbr.html

[Roland]

I know it's early, but, apparently, year-end Ten Best lists are already popping up like wildflowers.  "Atonement" is definitely at the head of the pack so far:

http://www.moviecitynews.com/awards/2008/gurus_00index.htm

[dback]

If I ran the world, I'd put "Hairspray" up for Best Cast at the SAG awards, as well as "Waitress."  I saw some very good films this year, but those two especially struck me as really having a lot of excellent work done by everyone in the film.  (Who knew James Marsden was as talented as he is before he played Corny Collins?  Or that Cheryl Hines could be as brassily funny?)

Alas, I fear that Michelle Pfeiffer's knockout supporting turn in "Stardust" is going to be overlooked.  Pity.

[DanRWentzelJr]

I loved that Dianna Osana was allowed to tell the truth in Entertainment Weekly. 

We cannot change the result, but we can tell the truth.

[Lyle (Mooska)]

This is from a 12/4 article in the Guardian (UK) newspaper.
It's a transcript of sorts with Paul Haggis (PH) and the interviewer (ML).
A couple of excerpts:

PH: It's all relative and I only really care what I think. I have things that I'm really proud of and other things that I'm not so proud of. With Crash, I couldn't watch it until about a year and a half after the Oscars. I got trapped at a film festival in Italy and my wife forced me to watch it. And I thought, you know it's not a bad film. But it took me that long. You're so close to these things, you know. When I first saw it at the Toronto festival it was on this screen, 40ft tall, and all I could see were my mistakes, 40ft tall. That's why I like it on small screens, where my mistakes are smaller.

The interviewer suggests that his films produce alot of hate mail.

PH: Well yes. Crash was a tiny movie, it was small budget. We had no expectations and then after it was released it started doing OK. And then Lionsgate came to me and said: "I think we're going to go for an Academy campaign for best picture". And I said: "Please, don't, you'll humiliate me. I'll be the laughing stock of Hollywood." And they ignored me. But after it won, suddenly it was well hated, and probably for good reason. I don't like this idea of "best picture". I mean I really love the statuettes, don't get me wrong. I really loved being nominated, but the idea that you can pit one film, one director, one film-maker against another and decide which is best I think is really odd. People say, "How dare they say this is a better picture than Ang Lee's film?" And I say: "I didn't say it!"

ML: There are a lot of people who, if the studio rang them up and said: "We're going for best picture" would feel that they deserved it, but you genuinely thought ...

PH: I was so happy to make that film. It was a piece of passion. And everyone waived their fees.

[...]

ML: I suppose what is revealing is that they never expected your film to be heard of again ...

PH: Indeed.


http://film.guardian.co.uk/interview/interviewpages/0,,2223256,00.html

[Lyle (Mooska)]

P.H.:  With Crash, I couldn't watch it until about a year and a half after the Oscars.

Join the club.

I still can't.

P.H.:  And then Lionsgate came to me and said: "I think we're going to go for an Academy campaign for best picture". And I said: "Please, don't, you'll humiliate me."

They succeeded.

P.H.:  But after it won, suddenly it was well hated, and probably for good reason.

Couldn't agree more.

M.L.:  I suppose what is revealing is that they never expected your film to be heard of again ...

PH: Indeed.

IF ONLY!

[Lyle (Mooska)]

When Brokeback Mountain was assuredly going to be an oscar contender, I was hoping that it had a chance to be nominated for costume design, especially since the costumes were such an important element in the plot--what costume designer wouldn't like that?  I also surmised that some of the voting costume deisgners could be gay and would vote for it anyway, perhaps.  Plus, I haven't heard anyone that didn't think the costumes were near perfect for this film...

I didn't expect it to win if it "was" nominated, though.  The only film that won an oscar for costume deisgn primarily for male costumes was Edith Head for The Sting.  But still...

With Marit Allen's passing, I thought of this again and wondered if she had any thoughts about her designs now being part of film history.  I don't recall reading anything about it on any forum threads, so I thought I'd render some opinions here!

Should Marit Allen have been nominated for Brokeback Mountain?

The nominees that year were:

2005 (78th)
COSTUME DESIGN
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory -- Gabriella Pescucci
Memoirs of a Geisha -- Colleen Atwood*
Mrs. Henderson Presents -- Sandy Powell
Pride & Prejudice -- Jacqueline Durran
Walk the Line -- Arianne Phillips

[DanRWentzelJr]

Here's the problem with Costume Designn, Editing, Cinematography and Art Direction and other technical categories.  I'm not really an expert other than saying, "I like it."  I don't know what the various degrees of difficulty are, or what the subtle differences are the way a trained, experienced professional does.

What may seem easier to me may not seem as easy to someone who knows what's actually invovled.

In 1989, the Oscar for Best Costume Design included the historical reconstructions from Henry IV, a wonderful low-budget film and the spectacular, "The Adventures of Baron Munchasen".  Which is tougher, recreating something from the past or inventing something fantastical from your imagination?  Henry IV won.  Was it because the design was "better"?  Was it given to Henry IV because it wasn't going to win in other categories, regardless of costumes?  I don't know how one would even compare the two different costume designs.  I thought they were both wonderful.  In any event, members of the Academy who were not members of the Costume branch, or at least the design branches should not have been voting in that category anyway (and we know they did even if they didn't actually see the movies).

As for acting, I've stated I believe that Heath Ledger had the more difficult assignment and why I would have voted for him over Phillip Seymour Hoffman the Oscar, although I think both gave Oscar worthy performances.  I can only speak from my experience as an actor and what I find more challenging and impressive.  And, I care about that.  IMO, the skunking of Heath Ledger for the televised acting awards and the loss of the 4-star acting performances in BBM to the 3-star performances in Crash in SAG's Best Cast in a Film category is an outrage even without the Oscar Best Picture tragegy.

Brokeback Mountain's costumes were wonderful.  They were a great recreation of period.

My good friend Jerry is a Costumer and is a member of the guild.  The Emmy's distinguish between Costume Design and Costuming.  Sometimes the actual "design" of a costume is more difficult than the actual assembling, gathering and production of a costume.  Sometimes it is the other way around.   Should the Oscars differentate between Costume Design and Costuming like the Emmys?  I absolutely think Brokeback Mountain absolutely deserved a nomination for its Costuming, and I wanted it to get a nomination for Costume Design.  But was the design one of the five best of the year?  It may very well have been.  Certainly the costume design branch of the Academy has gay men in it, so it wasn't an issue of macho homophobic guild members shunning it.  Same with the Art Directors branch, where my friend Barry gives me the skinny of the Academy from the inside.

There are only five nominations for Costumes at the Oscar.  The Costume Guild divides the film categories for its awards into "historical", "contemporary" and "fantasy".  That makes total sense to me.  The Oscars make no such differentiation.

What I do know is that I loved the costumes in Brokeback Mountain, both design and production.  They added to the story and the look of the movie without detracting or distracting from it.  I can absolutely celebrate Marit Allen's work without having to compare it to any other work.  By itself, it deserves applause and I prefer for myself to leave it that way.  I do think the costuming was more important to this film than others might think. The climax of the movie revolves around two shirts.  They better be the right ones.

Making artists and artwork compete for awards is both silly and at times cruel.  I really wish the Academies/Guilds/Critics just gave out awards for lifetime achievement, and for work on its own merit, whether its for the current year or a rediscovery from the past.

So well done, Merit and everyone who assisted on the costumes.

And this also shows again why the Emmys have more credibility than the Oscars.  The Emmys require actual viewing of the work before voting on it, and also requires that the people who actually vote in a particular category have expertise in that category.

[DanRWentzelJr]

I also think it's important to go back to the past and acknowledge work that was missed the first time around.  The Grammys, who's awards are historically worse and more criticized than the other Academies, even the Oscar, almost missed rock and roll in its entirety in the 1950's and 60's and usually plays catch up in every field.  Throughout the history of art itself, Academies have been the voice of the establishment and the elite, not the pioneers and renegades. 

What the Grammys do have that the Film Academy does not is a "Hall of Fame".  This is a chance to go back and award work and artists that exemplify excellence and make a lasting contribution to the artform.  Many of the recordings that the establishment/elite missed the first time are recognized in the Hall of the Fame.  I may not think much of the Grammys utterly missing the Rolling Stones, but I do love browsing through their Hall of Fame.

Citizen Kane, High Noon and Brokeback Mountain would all eventually be inducted in a Hall of Fame, despite having been snubbed as "Best Picture" because of Academy fears of a backlash. 

---------------

One note.  The Academy is notoriously highbrow, but then so am I.  However, the Academy, I think, needs to recongize landmark films even if it makes purists cringe.

Both Night of the Living Dead and Rocky Horror Picture Show are landmark films that should receive some mention from the Academy.  The Academy may not like low budget horror or the camp in Rocky Horror, but they are a part of filmmaking as well.  Not even Titanic had people stand in line 300 times to see it.  (Although at this point, many of us, including me, are well on our way to seeing BBM 300 times.  :-)  )..  Rocky Horror is being remembered and cherish by new fans over 30 years later long after Best Picture winners have been forgotten.  It would be a nice gesture for the Academy to acknowledge both of these films in some way. 

I'm not saying they are "great" film and certanily not as accomplished or as essential as Brokeback Mountain, but they must have substantial merit of some sort because they are still roaring, as the line standing outside the Nuart movie theatre tonight will still attest.

[CellarDweller115]

Good afternoon DCF members.

This thread continues to be active, and has long since passed the page number where we lock a thread, to help keep the forum running smoothly.

This thread will soon be locked and archived as "read only".

I'm posting a link here to a new thread called "Awards Aftermath - Part 2" where you can continue all the conversations that have taken place here.

This thread will remain unlocked for now.  If there is a post that you wish to quote, I'm asking that you click the "quote" key, and then Copy and Paste it from here, to the new thread, so that this one will stop growning.

The link to the new thread is here.

http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=27999.msg1099491#msg1099491