LIVE THREAD: Oprah does Brokeback

[peteinportland]

I want to add my 2 cents to Lynn.

I think this Board has a good history of open discussion and facilitating a place where divergent views can be discussed. There are many different opinions and interpretations on everything from the mechanics of the film to awards races to character analysis to box office. However, there has been a very conscious decision by Team Cullen to create an environment where discussion and debate is carried out in as respectful a manner as possible. Thus far, it has been fairly easy as almost everyone here shares a love and a passion for the work of art that is BBM. It is easy with a shared passion to remain respectful because we all respect the work so much.

With this thread and the Oprah show, there seemed to be some posters with Oprah agendas. I don't really have any issues with Oprah, but I'm not invested in her at all. I think most of our members would say the same. We ARE invested in BBM, and I think a lot of posters came to this thread expecting it to be all about BBM and the actors and what this publicity might mean for our little darlin. What we got for a short time was our first real flame war and not much of it to do with our beloved BBM and its principals but more to do with Oprah as a person and the mainstream media's portrayal of gay issues. I can understand how this sent some of us so accustomed to our virtual love-in with BBM into a bit of shock.  It was also a bit more difficult for the mod team than our normal duties. But I think everyone came out of it okay.

I will say, I am exceptionally grateful to our many veteran brokeaholics for the manner in which they carried themselves in posting on this thread. The thread was so easy to get back on track (if that is fair to say) due to you guys. I think most of you are like me. In reality, I barely noticed Oprah. My eyes and ears (oh, and most definitely my heart) were full of Heath, Jake, Michelle, and Anne and all the beautiful clips from the movie. That was what I came to the thread to discuss, and I did so. Gratifyingly, so many of you did the same. Thank you for that.

I DO think the discussion of how the mainstream media covers this film is an important one, and IMO, there were some very good and thoughtful posters who made some very valid points about the subject. I just think many of us were not expecting this particular debate and all its descendant emotions on this particular thread.

Last, I want to repeat that Dave Cullen is recovering from surgery. That is why you haven't seen him. But let me say something else about Dave. He has financed much of this operation out of his pocket (and I did learn in the last couple of days that there is now a way to contribute to the upkeep of this site via paypal--the link is at the bottom of the main screen). Then, he found a great Chief Mod in Melisandre, a technical genius in Greg, a feverent researcher and link master in Matt, and a very fine group of moderators, and he allows them (us) great freedom in making sure the site runs as best as possible. And I know from the bottom of my heart that this exceptional group of people want to make this Board an incredible experience for as many people as possible around the world. As a result, it is a bit more tightly moderated than some other Boards. We just will not allow flames, and personal attacks, and hurtful gossip about the principals involved in BBM. We give great leeway to heartfelt discussions and debate (and sometimes agonize as a team about where the line might be crossed), but endeavor to make sure everyone feels this is a positive Internet experience.

AND, it makes it so much easier when we have hundreds of wonderfully expressive and respectful members. You guys really are the best Board community with which I've been associated (by far). BBM is a wonderful and amazing book and film. Its most obsessive fans are the same! You guys rock!

[Wayman Wong]

PeteinPortland, that was beautifully said. Enjoying this movie wouldn't be quite the same without this forum, so congrats to Dave Cullen and everyone else who works so hard to moderate it. ... And thanks to all the thoughtful posters who can see the positive side of things, especially on this thread, like FishinBuddy, Angela and many others. Brava for Oprah; she just gave our movie a half-hour of free PR nationwide, and gave the cast a chance to show off who they are and how they feel. Has anyone else showcased all four of them like that? Wasn't it worth it to see the chemistry between Heath and Jake alone? I just can't agree with the naysayers who feel she wasn't enthusiastic enough; Oprah called it ''one of the most well-done movies'' she's ever seen and urged everyone to catch it. What more can you ask for? There's enough hate out there from people who won't even see this movie and have been rooting for it to fail. Let's be grateful for someone who is championing it.

[Ross:Broken]

Thanks, Pete!

[BillN]

I want to add my 2 cents to Lynn.

AND, it makes it so much easier when we have hundreds of wonderfully expressive and respectful members. You guys really are the best Board community with which I've been associated (by far). BBM is a wonderful and amazing book and film. Its most obsessive fans are the same! You guys rock!

Pete, Bravo for adding your 2 cents, it sounded like a $1 million to me. I've gone the Paypal route to help Dave with this endevour, I'd encourage everyone to do the same.

[Al***]

Thanks Pete for this post and so many of your other wonderful posts!

...... But let me say something else about Dave. He has financed much of this operation out of his pocket (and I did learn in the last couple of days that there is now a way to contribute to the upkeep of this site via paypal--the link is at the bottom of the main screen). ....!

I hope sometime there can be some mail-in or debit card way of supporting the 'site. (Not that I can make much of a donation but everything helps.)  I hate PayPay and no longer have an account with them.  Thanks!

[lynn]

AfterElton's take on the show, echoing many of thoughts expressed here.

http://www.afterelton.com/TV/2006/1/oprah.html

And finally, a great screenshot from the show. A picture is worth a thousand words...

[Almajunior]

For a straight woman you have a very very deep understanding of the issues that affect gay - yes: gay - people.

That's my criticism with her show.

Thanks for this compliment, lightsrays05.  But, I can't take full credit for having a "deep understanding" of gay issues.  It comes from empathizing because of my dad's situation, listening to LGBT friends in my life or the LGBT colleagues whom I work with when we have conversations, and especially reading the literature of queer theorists/authors (my favorites include Audre Lorde, James Baldwin, Judith Butler, and Adrienne Rich) whose perspectives have given me a different view of the world.  And, of course, watching movies like Brokeback Mountain. 

It's not always easy challenging your worldview and I've had my homophobia challenged on different levels, but it takes true dialogue and open-mindedness to begin to understand and empathize with someone else who is completely different from you.

Which is why I disagree with someone who made a comment that he didn't expect Oprah, a straight black woman, to understand the experience of a gay white man. 

Well, I could empathize with the characters in Brokeback Mountain, who shared neither my race, my gender, my sexual identity, nor my geographical location in the U.S., and would be especially disappointed if someone couldn't relate to me because I was so "different" from them. 

We really can't afford to let people off the hook because they're too privileged to even bother to understand someone else's oppression.  I really believe that more straight people need to be exposed to more gay people and gay ideas if we're going to begin to challenge the heterosexism of our culture. 

[Chris]

AfterElton's take on the show, echoing many of thoughts expressed here.

http://www.afterelton.com/TV/2006/1/oprah.html

I especially like his comment "Then there is the fact that the movie has hit the cultural landscape like a bombshell, creating an impact not seen Ellen came out. It must be daunting to stand at the center of such a cultural hurricane."

Reminds me of a song by Neil Young - titled Like a Hurricane

[timmer12]

First a big thank you to everyone who makes this board possible, I don't know how you keep up with it all, but I'm grateful that you do.  Second, I loved the show, thought it was great press for our movie.  I will have to go again, just to see if the theaters fill up after yesterday.....and as long as I'm there, I might have to watch the movie again too. 
     I apologize if this has already been asked, I tried to scan the thread, but Jack Nasty there was so much to read, I might have missed it.  In my area, there was 30 seconds of dead air before the second segment with Jake and Heath started, then 20 seconds of dead air before the segment introducing Michelle and Anne.  It could be that our local station had a glitch, but I'm wondering if they censored something out.  I thought a few of you said they showed the dozy embrace, but I've watched it 3 times, and can't find it.  I'm really curious, because if our local station censored it, I'd like to call them on it.  I live in Spokane, Washington.  If you in other places had the same thing happen, then I won't worry, but I'd like to go to bat for BBM if it was something else.  There is so much homophobia where I work, and in my life that I sometimes see it everywhere.  Please get back to me if you've heard anything.

     Thank you again to everyone who runs the site, especially to Dave for starting it, Greg for helping me get on board and Pete for saying what I think, but in far more eloquent terms.

[lightsrays05]

We really can't afford to let people off the hook because they're too privileged to even bother to understand someone else's oppression. 

AMEN!

And Oprah being such a high-profile, influential person, deserves to be challenged more than most. (That goes for everyone in the public arena by theway...)

[Hmmmm]

Are there downloads of the Oprah episode available I can read with my Mac? The wmv files won't open for me.

I have not seen a quicktime or mpeg link.  But I think the usual way to play .wmv is to use the Windows Media Player for Mac.  Free download.  After you install it it should just pop up automatically when you click on a .wmv link form your browser.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/software/Macintosh/osx/default.aspx

When you install it I would imagine you would want to make sure that the Windows Media Player is the default for only .wmv files if you are presented with some sort of "chose defaults" dialog box when installing.

[aussiec54]

This picture shows the different body language between Heath and Jake.  I know Heath doesn't like doing interviews, but he really looked like Ennis at times!  OTOH, Jake was so relaxed.  He seems a natural TV performer.

Thanks for posting this picture, I really like it.

[ImEnnisShesJack]

"I came home and read the posts as best I couldn't and couldn't find anything that was the cause except a bunch of sour grapes that a) Oprah was superficial,and vapid.  But that doesn't surprise me when you consider her target audience,..."

having gritted my teeth all through the negative commnents yesterday, i read this comment and found myself even sadder. 

welp, since it was my comment you quoted, I guess I should try to temper it a bit and explain what I meant by that.  Especially since I used to be a part of that target audience.  I grew up in Chicago and remember when Oprah took over for Rob Weller on what used to be "AM Chicago".  I admire her for taking that show by the balls and turning it into her empire we see today.  Sure I think she has issues in her personal life that effect her career, but don't we all. Her interview yesterday was certainly not "in dept" or "revealing" in any way.  It was a bone to throw at the fans while we wait for Oscar noms on tuesday.  She was milking BBM's success like a dairy cow.  More power to her.  She was obviously reading from a teleprompter and she honestly did not appear to be focused 100% on her job.  Maybe it was just an off day for her.  That was the reason for my "superficial" and "vapid" statements.

What I find really disappointing about Oprah's followers is that there seems to be a lemming-like quality to them.  She says this book is great or this is the color your kitchen walls should be or whatever and then suddenly thousands of viewers HAVE to have that book and that paint color.  There's a blind and helpless quality to it that just saddens me.  I'm going to paint my kitchen a color I like, not what she says is going to be the latest trend.  And as for the books, well, even she can make mistakes and get taken in by a shyster (a la James Frey).  Fortunately, I had changed my life role and was no longer on the couch watching soaps and talk shows when a lot of this change happened.  I have grown away from Oprah as I have grown in other aspects of my life simply because I am not home during the hours when her show is likely to air.

Perhaps I was less than tactful in my wording, as my statements really were meant to say, "I don't see what the fuss was about" following the 20 pages of negative rants on this thread.  Obviously, as is the nature of two-dimensional communication, I did not effectively convey this message.  Bottom line is there's no such thing as bad press at this point.  THe show will draw attention to BBM just like the satirical Top 10 List on Letterman.

[ImEnnisShesJack]

Anne was adorable.  Proof that she actually can act b'c she is nothing like Lureen at all.

I'm going to offer up this link as my apologetic olive branch to the thread:

http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=208.msg7075#msg7075

This is the link to the BBM humour.  Grain of salt here as there is satirical humour - these people are poking fun at Brokeback.

[spaino]

But that lead me to think about the "down low" question.  It's safe to assume that nothing went out in the broadcast that Oprah didn't okay herself ... so it seems to me, rather than as suggested in an earlier post that Heath saved her from embarrassment, Oprah set up Heath with the question or, at least, allowed his response to be the "last word" on the subject by sending it out over the airwaves.

That "embarrassment" comment was mine and made after admitting that I'd never seen an Oprah episode until this one. I have since come to understand from reading every post on these +55 pages, that the "Down Low" subject is one that Oprah regularly visits in her shows. In fact it seems to be a subject close to her heart. It is therefore obvious that Heath didn't save Oprah from anything at all - least of all embarrassment - and that the only thing Heath did was keep the program on message ... which was to promote the movie in a positive light. Thankfully the audience cheered Heath's comment and Oprah didn't continue with her negativity.