Is society really as accepting as it claims?

[janjo]

Linda and Vincent, thank you.

Yes, what a waste of money which could be used for many causes that would be useful.
That sort of money could save lives, and still it is spent doing harm, and is definitely on the wrong side of history.

I get fed up sometimes, in what is really a very tolerant country, hearing my friends, people who I know at base are good, kind people, spouting rubbish about immigrants, and queers, and much other nonsense besides. I do, of course have many friends who don't feel like this but it is very upsetting.
I would definitely say that the older people are, the more they are likely to hold these unacceptable views, on the whole.
There also seems to be a corellation, (but not always of course), between these entrenched prejudices and the inability to learn anything about new technology, use a computer etc.
I suppose it is fear of change, fear of new thought, perhaps fear of the future.

[chuckyv]

John T. posted this over on FB and I shared it on my wall. It is a powerful story of faith, change, and the absolute love of a father for his son. Worth the read!

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2012/jun/24/a-sons-secret-brings-a-southern-baptist-minister/

Thanks for putting this up. I will share it at my next PFLAG meeting in a few weeks. I wish I could tell you all that  the meetings are going strong, but they are not. The meetings are hanging by a thread. We had to change venue late last year. The meetings were held at a Diner, until the husband of the owner raised objections, something about the "association with gays" damaging the business. Never mind the fact that the business saw no dip in profit, and still appears to be doing well. We are now at a local library, and the last two meetings were small. 5 people at each. In any case, PFLAG SA will not be going anywhere, even if it becomes a phone hotline only. Other branches have opened too.  You know, sometimes a rosebush can look awfully damaged, and after a good pruning, it grows back stronger than ever.

[jack]

just so chucky, you have the right idea. have you no progressive church denominations that will allow you a room even once a month?  the library and the diner seem so public as to discourage attendance by frightened people.

[chuckyv]

 Unfortunately, most of the churches here are as frightened as anyone, or are actively creating a lot of the fear. There was one methodist church that would have helped, but the times they offered were early in the day when most people are unavailable.
The library is hopefully a temporary site.  The thing that is gratifying, is that the organisation exists at all, and has not disappeared as many were predicting. The long approach is the only way to view this.  I hope that you are well Jack, and that life is treating you kindly.  x

[Cally]

Thanks for putting this up. I will share it at my next PFLAG meeting in a few weeks. I wish I could tell you all that  the meetings are going strong, but they are not. The meetings are hanging by a thread. We had to change venue late last year. The meetings were held at a Diner, until the husband of the owner raised objections, something about the "association with gays" damaging the business. Never mind the fact that the business saw no dip in profit, and still appears to be doing well. We are now at a local library, and the last two meetings were small. 5 people at each. In any case, PFLAG SA will not be going anywhere, even if it becomes a phone hotline only. Other branches have opened too.  You know, sometimes a rosebush can look awfully damaged, and after a good pruning, it grows back stronger than ever.

Good luck with future progress - I'm sure you'll stay strong.

[CellarDweller115]

Chucky, are you able to move the meetings to a private location?  Someone's house or apartment?  Perhaps people may feel more secure if they're not in a public place.

[janjo]

That article was fascinating, Chuck. I do hope that you will be able to keep going and grow stronger again, because it is such a worthwhile organisation.

[fritzkep]

Came across this article about one of the religious right people who is currently having a hissy about same-sex marriage acceptance. I like the last few sentences especially:

But that divide within Christianity itself, endangers the monopoly that the fundamentalist brands of christianity demand, and in their worst moments have tried to foist on the general public.  While Christian thinking has been all over the map on so many other issues, the more fundamentalist tribes have generally been able to hold the line on homosexual sin.  But for them, too, that line is fading, and Chambers exacerbates the problem.  If sexual attraction can’t be changed, and if homosexual attraction in particular can’t be stamped out or ignored, then the case for just accepting gay people within the civil law is not just strong, its opposite is inhumane.

This is the turning point for religion today.  The possibility that lifelong heterosexual marriage may not be exactly at the center of the moral universe is as threatening to Gagnon as the location of the earth itself was to Pope Urban VIII when Galileo was sentenced to prison.  Gagnon is fighting every bit as hard (with more limited resources) for the status quo.

Galileo and Copernicus did not eliminate the earth, they just noticed – and said — that it was located somewhere other than where the Vatican had always placed it. That’s a religious problem only if you are under the impression that earthly religious leaders are as inevitably correct in their scientific thinking as they are in their theology.  But the Bible isn’t an authority on everything, and sometimes people use the Bible’s words to make moral issues out of things that aren’t properly moral.  The earth is no less important because it circles a larger body, and heterosexual marriage is no less important because it is not in every human’s nature to be attracted to the opposite sex.  There is plenty of room in the universe for God, still, and morality — even sexual morality.  And maybe God approves when humans acknowledge their errors.

Chambers isn’t Galileo, just as Gagnon isn’t Pope Urban; but today’s evangelical Inquisition is every bit as vainglorious as its Catholic predecessor, every bit as contemptuous of unbelievers, and every bit as likely to expose the sin of its own excess of hubris.

http://igfculturewatch.com/2012/07/08/the-sin/

[chuckyv]

Chucky, are you able to move the meetings to a private location?  Someone's house or apartment?  Perhaps people may feel more secure if they're not in a public place.

That could be a problem. A crowd appearing on any private doorstep on the same evening every month would get the place noticed. Maybe crowd is not the word to use, if only 5 attend.

[gattaca]

Came across this article about one of the religious right people who is currently having a hissy about same-sex marriage acceptance. I like the last few sentences especially:

http://igfculturewatch.com/2012/07/08/the-sin/

accurate.  Vincent

[jack]

  I hope that you are well Jack, and that life is treating you kindly.  x

sorry your group has been so poorly received by churches.  for all of the hate being drummed up here, it seems that pflag is accepted as a legitimate service group by many of the more progressive denomination.

life has kinda made me her bitch for a while now, but i optimistically think of it a some kind of foreplay.  i am moving to HAWAII in less than 2 months, so i will reserve judgement until that all falls out.

[janjo]

The Catholic church ignored the child abuse scandals in the Republic of Ireland, (and in many other places too), for many, many years, when the knowledge became public of the terrible things that had been done, and the way that these events had been covered up, the result was the decline of the Catholic church in Ireland.
The refusal sometimes of the Catholic Church to see the truth, i.e. Galileo, paedophilia in the priesthood, and now its stance on homosexuality, ultimately is leading to its decline, and to a loss of belief.
All churches need to appreciate the danger that they face here.
Ranting hatred wildly, is NOT Christian, and the church members always see through it in the end.
The whole future of the church is at stake here and religous leaders would do well to realise that.

[killersmom]

The Catholic church ignored the child abuse scandals in the Republic of Ireland, (and in many other places too), for many, many years, when the knowledge became public of the terrible things that had been done, and the way that these events had been covered up, the result was the decline of the Catholic church in Ireland.
The refusal sometimes of the Catholic Church to see the truth, i.e. Galileo, paedophilia in the priesthood, and now its stance on homosexuality, ultimately is leading to its decline, and to a loss of belief.
All churches need to appreciate the danger that they face here.
Ranting hatred wildly, is NOT Christian, and the church members always see through it in the end.
The whole future of the church is at stake here and religous leaders would do well to realise that.

What I am going to post is not really on topic for the subject of this thread, but is a good follow up to what Jess is talking about in the above post.

There has been a trial here in San Jose, CA, of William Lynch who beat a retired Jesuit priest last May 2010, who brutally molested Lynch and his brother when they were 7 and 5 and he was their pastor. The man was acquitted of the charges by the jury, despite the fact that the judge did not allow the testimony of the numerous victims of the priest.

Although Lindner denied molesting the Lynch boys, he has been accused of abusing nearly a dozen other people, including his own sister and nieces and nephews.  He was removed from the ministry and placed in the retirement home in 2001where he cares for 75 retired and invalid priests.

The abuse of the man and his brother took place in 1975. As was the custom of the Catholic Church, this priest was just moved from parish to parish to continue his abuse, and never punished or taken out of the situations. Despite the difficulties put forth by the prosecution and the judge, the jury acquitted him.  William admitted on the stand to beating the priest and was prepared to face the punishment for his actions.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/william-lynch-acquitted-beating-priest-abused/story?id=16706803#.T_x1JHJ0S3g

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20021391-504083.html?tag=mncol;lst;2

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57467257-504083/san-jose-man-acquitted-of-beating-priest-who-allegedly-molested-him/

[estefue]

The New York Times has a brief follow up article about this case noting that there will be no retrial on charges the jury deadlocked on:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/12/us/california-prosecutors-forgo-new-trial-for-man-accused-of-assaulting-priest.html?ref=us

[killersmom]

Thanks Esteban ~~waves~~
I saw this on the news last night.
I am so glad!!