Were they gay? (Jack & Ennis)

[bluehorse]

It's interesting that Jack who comes on to to Ennis, flirts with the rodeo clown, and eyes Randall at the table, is very reluctant to flirt with Lureen at first (what do want a mating call?). I think Jack is totally out of his element with women. . .

[cythera4]

It's interesting that Jack who comes on to to Ennis, flirts with the rodeo clown, and eyes Randall at the table, is very reluctant to flirt with Lureen at first (what do want a mating call?). I think Jack is totally out of his element with women. . .

I agree. But you've got to love Lureen's line. It's one of the best in the film.  It's much better than Cassie's "tryin' to get a footrub, dummy." Ah, what horny gals have to do to get a gay man into bed!

[BillN]

I don't think Ennis is comfortable enough to be hanging out with other men at this point in his life. He was extremely shy in the trailer and only told Jack his name after Jack asked him.

UCLA, my take is that Ennis doesn't want to relate to anyone because he is very repressed and probably somewhat confused. He has had a very difficult childhood and loses his last two anchors in his brother and sister before he is 15 or so. He has probably seen that the men around him are supposed to be stoic and adopts quietness as a defence. It is only after they are on the mountain awhile that he strings more than a few sentences together. I think we have all met men like Ennis and can relate to their inability or unwillingness to communicate beyond the bare necessities. Hopefully BBM will help some of them to understand that communicating more can be good for themselves.

[aevkc]

I also got the impression that Ennis didn't communicate much because from a very early age he was forced to hide who he really was.  From the moment his father showed him that dead rancher he recognized how dangerous it would be to show his true self in any way.  That's why he held himself so tightly, like a clenched fist, for fear that anyone would "recognize" him.  JMO.

[cythera4]

I also got the impression that Ennis didn't communicate much because from a very early age he was forced to hide who he really was.  From the moment his father showed him that dead rancher he recognized how dangerous it would be to show his true self in any way.  That's why he held himself so tightly, like a clenched fist, for fear that anyone would "recognize" him.  JMO.

I buy it. And remember, too, his brother way there. So he couldn't trust him either....

[BillN]

I also got the impression that Ennis didn't communicate much because from a very early age he was forced to hide who he really was.  From the moment his father showed him that dead rancher he recognized how dangerous it would be to show his true self in any way.  That's why he held himself so tightly, like a clenched fist, for fear that anyone would "recognize" him.  JMO.

I buy it. And remember, too, his brother way there. So he couldn't trust him either....

Good points and ties some things together, particularly the element of trust.

[ToolPackinMama]

ToolPackinMama, thanks.

I think people are confused because Lee and Proulx give us wives and children in the mix, and some people assume, therefore, I think, that all are 'equal' in the Jack and Ennis mix. Just as they confuse Ennis' emotional troubles and reluctence to live with Jack as proof of his essential heterosexuality.

As I've said, I don't think what Ennis felt for Alma was at any time anything like what he felt for Jack, and for Jack the same thing is true.

Part of the reason--but only part of the reason--why Alma crumbles after she sees them kissing is because she knows she's seeing 'passion' in her husband---not just homosexuality and infidelity.

And she knows she's just been permanently displaced, as indeed she proves to have been. 

I agree.  Ennis and Jack were truely, honestly passionate about each other.  Neither of them ever felt that way about their wives.

[Uclapeterg]

I don't think Ennis is comfortable enough to be hanging out with other men at this point in his life. He was extremely shy in the trailer and only told Jack his name after Jack asked him.

UCLA, my take is that Ennis doesn't want to relate to anyone because he is very repressed and probably somewhat confused. He has had a very difficult childhood and loses his last two anchors in his brother and sister before he is 15 or so. He has probably seen that the men around him are supposed to be stoic and adopts quietness as a defence. It is only after they are on the mountain awhile that he strings more than a few sentences together. I think we have all met men like Ennis and can relate to their inability or unwillingness to communicate beyond the bare necessities. Hopefully BBM will help some of them to understand that communicating more can be good for themselves.

You basically said what I felt, but definitely said it better than I did or would have. 

[ToolPackinMama]

cythera4, they do like their wives and perhaps love them too.  I think Ennis loved Alma more than Jack loved Lureen. But we see no evidence that they loved them passionately, as they loved one another. I think they were homosexual with bisexual tendencies, which is true of many homosexual men, like myself for one. 

I agree.  In my experience, it's a very rare Gay man that can't at least pretend to be turned on by women.  Most Gays, male and female, have at least TRIED to be straight.

That's what I see when I watch Jack and Ennis together:  two Gay men (who are in love with each other) who feel forced to try to be straight... because our hypocritial country is so sick and fucked up.

[cythera4]

I agree.  In my experience, it's a very rare Gay man that can't at least pretend to be turned on by women.  Most Gays, male and female, have at least TRIED to be straight.

That's what I see when I watch Jack and Ennis together:  two Gay men (who are in love with each other) who feel forced to try to be straight... because our hypocritial country is so sick and fucked up.

Well, it's such a wonderful affirmation that straight people can find this honest expression of passion between two gay men so appealing. The movie itself, narratively, depicts a terrible tragedy, but its reception *as a movie* suggests such hope for all of us. Doesn't it?

[vertimus]

BillN, beautifully expressed about Ennis, and right on target, I think.

[BillN]

BillN, beautifully expressed about Ennis, and right on target, I think.

Thanks, sometimes the words do come out in a coherent way. Then again, it helps when you are being inspired by a wonderful movie and many great posts from a people of a variety of backgrounds, locations, experiences, etc.

[DaveinPhilly]

I just came in from my 7th time seeing the film. I went in partly thinking about the reported remarks from  Jake Gyllenhaal  suggesting that he didn't think Jack was gay , but basically a straight man in love with Ennis - at least that's what I inferred from the posting - never heard the interview.

Boy was he covering up IMHO! The guy he plays and the way he plays him - no way, no way and Jake can't be serious. I am so impressed with the courage it took both actors to go out on a limb - even today - and play these characters, but I think Jake's remarks are his backtracking from what I saw as courage.

[BillN]

I just came in from my 7th time seeing the film. I went in partly thinking about the reported remarks from  Jake Gyllenhaal  suggesting that he didn't think Jack was gay , but basically a straight man in love with Ennis - at least that's what I inferred from the posting - never heard the interview.

Boy was he covering up IMHO! The guy he plays and the way he plays him - no way, no way and Jake can't be serious. I am so impressed with the courage it took both actors to go out on a limb - even today - and play these characters, but I think Jake's remarks are his backtracking from what I saw as courage.

Dave, I have a different interpretation on his comments. He may have been saying that the only way he could relate to Jack was to think of him as straight, that he could not understand being gay. He needed a basis for creating the character on the screen, and that was his method. From what I have read about Jake, and heard from him in interviews, he seems to be a very candid person and not the least bit ashamed of his beliefs.

[red]

They were gay. Jack for sure. Ennis too. He didn't want to be "I ain't no queer".

I think there's an immediate attraction. In the beginning Ennis is trying a little too hard not to look at Jack. Up on BBM we see Ennis looking across the valley for Jack. The book says Ennis spends his days looking across a great gulf for Jack. Ennis is also upset because their summer tryst is cut short by Joe A. I don't think anybody really thinks he's bummed about the money.

Also E takes no pleasure in having sex with his wife. It's duty like everything else in his life. He's almost relieved to not have to anymore. Besides the way E likes to have sex with A takes him back to Jack and BBM.

Ennis is gay from the get-go. He just can't get his arms around the fact until it's too late. He's gay, it's the premise of the movie I think.