The Phone Call

[kathy]

I'm not up on all this, I haven't been on the s&i thread much, but since she sounded so rehearsed - like she'd been repeating the story over and over and word for word - made sense to me that she was telling everyone the same thing...


1.  She's relating the story as memorized and told by her countless times.

2.  Ennis is not heartless.  He went to see the Twists' due to the comment about Jack's ashes.  Ennis loves Jack and wants to do something, even if it does sadly pertain to the ashes.  He was very willing to scatter them on BBM (which means as much to E and it does to J); and I believe he would have, but for OMT's attitude of "NO", and his rotten attitude to Ennis. OMT mentions a "feller from TX" that Jack had talked about in the spring, and Ennis' face goes completely white.  ("Now he knows it was the tire iron").   

3.  Ennis' pain and sorrow for Jack and the whole situation is all over his face; he can hardly contain it when Jack's mother appears.  But he manages to try because of OMT's nasty attitude towards him.  He stares down at the table as if holding back sobbing.  When Jack's mother (who is so kind towards him) invites Ennis to see Jack's room, he goes up the stairs visibly sobbing.  This goes on for the rest of that unforgettable scene.  Then, as he comes down holding the shirts, Jack's mom immediately puts them in a bag.  OMT doesn't even bat an eye.  As Ennis leaves, he's still in a sense of sorrow and denial, more so now on finding the shirts.  He turns around then drives away...as if in shock.
 
4.  Guilt (as well as regret) is certainly going to be a major factor in the coming days, months, etc... on top of all the other terrible stages of grief for Jack.   I've always believed that when the awful realization that Jack is not there anymore hits Ennis, he'll have such temendous sorrow it will drive him to self-destruction.   

kathy   

  --  Sorry, mods, if I rambled on.  I don't mean to, but I feel the phone call causes such torment to Ennis.   

[ChangeINeed]

In this scene i was touched also by Lureen. Although her "little  voice was cold as snow", she isn't cruel. She tells Ennis about Jack's wishes and admits that Brokeback was his favourite place although she had just heard the confirmation of her suspicions,the root of her pains: "We herded sheep on Brokeback one summer." This last line ripped my heart more than his devastation over Jack's death because he didn't have  to explain Lureen what Brokeback meant, he lifted himself above his fears, he admitted that he fell in love with Jack up there. And Lureen gets it. Her eyes full of tears, her voice crack.


*Is  it bad that i bring these old topic sback  in life?*

[Dal]

Hi ChangeINeed, welcome to the forum!  "*Is  it bad that i bring these old topic back  in life?*"  No, of course not.   The population has fallen markedly here though, So conversations might be slow.

[janjo]

In this scene i was touched also by Lureen. Although her "little  voice was cold as snow", she isn't cruel. She tells Ennis about Jack's wishes and admits that Brokeback was his favourite place although she had just heard the confirmation of her suspicions,the root of her pains: "We herded sheep on Brokeback one summer." This last line ripped my heart more than his devastation over Jack's death because he didn't have  to explain Lureen what Brokeback meant, he lifted himself above his fears, he admitted that he fell in love with Jack up there. And Lureen gets it. Her eyes full of tears, her voice crack.


*Is  it bad that i bring these old topic sback  in life?*

Not bad at all. especially as you seem to understand them perfectly.

[morrobay]

In this scene i was touched also by Lureen. Although her "little  voice was cold as snow", she isn't cruel. She tells Ennis about Jack's wishes and admits that Brokeback was his favourite place although she had just heard the confirmation of her suspicions,the root of her pains: "We herded sheep on Brokeback one summer." This last line ripped my heart more than his devastation over Jack's death because he didn't have  to explain Lureen what Brokeback meant, he lifted himself above his fears, he admitted that he fell in love with Jack up there. And Lureen gets it. Her eyes full of tears, her voice crack.


*Is  it bad that i bring these old topic sback  in life?*

No, keep bringing these threads back to life.  I came late to the party (2008) and I'm still catching up.  I always check and see if there are new posts, new insights, new thoughts.


This is so well said, and made me cry thinking of Ennis admitting what really happened up there. 

And I've always felt for Lureen...I always thought she loved Jack and wanted their marriage to work, but she was fighting something unknown, unseen...and she had no choice but to give up.  you can only bang your head against a wall for so long before you realize it's not getting you anywhere.

 

[janjo]

It seems the ultimate betrayal to me to me to find out that your partner is in love with someone else of the same sex. As it says in the Shaun Kirshner song from "Meet Me On The Mountain," "done my hair, done my nails, tried to keep my figure trim," there is nothing you can do to fight back, if it had been another woman Jack had been in love with, all of the foregoing might have worked, as it was, there was nothing Lureen could do, however feisty and strong she was except bury herself in her work, and fight with demons she did not understand.
A good reason to encourage gay marriage, and to stop these utter tragedies for all concerned from happening, I would have thought.

Edit to insert a backslash, to keep the display from choking   Dal

[City Girl]

... Lureen would deduce Jack had been hiding something from her, when Ennis lets her know BBM was a real place---then she knows he was not the useless dishrag who drank, that he had a whole part of him she knew nothing about.



Well, isn't this true of EVERYONE who knows Jack? Lureen gets it with the phone call; Ennis with the shirts; Jack's dad is never entirely clued in; his Mom, of cousre, knows what maybe she cannot articulate. In a way, Alma comes the closest to really knowing Jack: The man that had the power to sway her husband's love in one direction, and forever.

The phone call is just the moment the ball starts rolling...
But what is sad, is how Jack never gets revealed fully to anyone, and when he tries with Ennis, he gets slapped down in various ways. Ennis only comes to 'know' him fully, after his death.

His tragedy is one of the all-time great=and unique-ones in literature.

"Jack is never revealed fully to anyone."  Oh my... I've never heard it put this way but it's so very true.  So poignant.  And I'm sitting here just amazed to find yet another way of expressing this tragedy.

[City Girl]

It's interesting to me when people doubt or are surprised that Jack was so devoted to Ennis, although it happens pretty often.  A friend who is into BBM but not a fangirl once told me she thought J&E wouldn't have stood a chance b/c Jack was too flighty, but when I asked her if she thought Jack was ever not steadfast in his love for Ennis, she said she guessed not... so it's interesting that this impression of him is out there. 

OT but *nods head*, I too have been stunned at some of the things said about Jack, how he didn't love Ennis but just "wanted him", or that Jack would have cheated on Ennis even if they were together, or that "Jack should have left Ennis alone".  "Flighty"?  This is a man who formed his whole future, his whole sense of self, his whole existence on Ennis.

[janjo]

"Jack is never revealed fully to anyone."  Oh my... I've never heard it put this way but it's so very true.  So poignant.  And I'm sitting here just amazed to find yet another way of expressing this tragedy.

Even Jack's ashes were divided in two. Jack was never able to be a complete person, even in death.

[Sandy]

^^^^^^

Excellent insight, jess!

[kathy]

**I wouldn't think this for one second.  Jack and Ennis lived their loves for each other; noone knew the other like they did.  Jack "never revealing himself" - no way!  He has revealed his love, desire, and want to be with Ennis all throughout the years.
 
Ennis also has built his life around being with Jack, even though he is so afraid of anyone knowing.  The tragedy of their story never suggests to me that Jack "never reveals himself".  If anything, he is so unhappy being apart from the love of his life that it is very apparent on his face.  And the unhappiness shows on Ennis' face too.**

kathy 

[City Girl]

Oh I don't know Kathy...  To us Jack's love for Ennis is obvious, as Ennis's love for Jack is obvious.  Yet, Jack and Ennis never acknowledged what it was they had together to each other.  Ennis couldn't and Jack didn't want to risk shocking Ennis.  And while Jack's face clearly showed his growing misery and he sends all kinds of hints Ennis does his level best to not absorb them because if he did then he'd have to do something about it.  It is only after their last time together where Jack starts telling some secrets about himself that Ennis really starts to mull over Jack's disatisfaction, the pushing the pie around the plate scene, and in that scene we learn that he has ended things with Cassie so ''something" was going on with him.  Whether he was on his way to making himself more available to Jack, either in the form of more time for more fishing trips or something more than that, is not clear but at the very least he no longer was trying to delude himself that he could make a future with Cassie.  But I do think that while alive whole sections of Jack's life were secret from everyone, including Ennis. 

[kathy]

**Hello city girl: 

That scene of Ennis looking so miserable and unhappy in the restaurant, not eating - just pushing the pie around - has always meant very much to me.  We see he is so miserable; what thoughts may have been going around in his head??  He has seen Jack's unhappiness; but Ennis just can't tell him how unhappy he has been too!  No words are needed - we know.  I've always felt he thought he MUST do something, not just fishing or getting together more, but something definitely more meaningful to Jack and himself than that. 
 
When Cassie comes in and confronts him, Ennis knows he can never commit to her due to his ongoing life dilemma.  His heart lies elsewhere and always has.  Heath portrays Ennis' unhappiness so perfectly it practically jumps out at us, just as (Jake as) Jack's unhappiness struck deeply home to Ennis. But Ennis can't respond because he can't - this is Ennis,  after all.   But it doesn't mean that E&J didn't understand each other completely; no one knew the other as they did.

Portions of Jack's life were kept secret from everyone - including Ennis.  He certainly can't tell him about things like that.  But how Ennis had suspicions, which finally come out as he asks Jack about Mexico.  He's been thinking about this for quite a long time...
And back in TX I'm sure Jack wouldn't share anything w/anyone regarding his life.  (Of course one card or call from Ennis after that bad argument, would have changed the whole story).  But the story of E&J is a tragic one, ending badly for both.  And this is why it effects us so enormously.**

kathy
 

   

[City Girl]

*waves at Kathy*

Before we get smacked on the hand for going far afield from the phone call scene I had to comment about the pie scene.  In it is the first time I see Ennis really reflecting on things.  And I think what he is reflecting on is Jack and what he should do next.  Not sure if he came up with any answers before or after Cassie confronts him.  But I don't think that Ennis even then sees what he and Jack have as "love".  He knows that Jack wants him but he doesn't see that it is love (because in his mind two men can't love each other), that concept of what they really had doesn't hit him until he finds the shirts, which is why that scene has such an impact on both him and the audience.  So it is the knowledge that Jack loved him from the beginning that is what Jack kept secret from Ennis.

To bring this back to the phone call scene, I do think it is ironic that Lureen might have seen it for what it was before Ennis comes to know what their relationship really was.

[kathy]

(((((city girl)))) --

**I do agree 90% with all of the above, the pie scene, all of it.   Mods:  Pls. forgive me if I am OT.  But I want to answer the reply directly above:

The only thing I must say is that I truly believe Ennis knew it was love he felt for Jack.  What else would keep them coming back so gladly to each other for almost 20 yrs.?  This is not a sex thing; this is a love thing and they both know it.  And they have known it since their glorious summer on BBM. 

It's just that Ennis - repressed, can't get words out Ennis - has tried so long and hard to deny feeling the way he does for Jack is truly "love".  He has been so scarred since 9 yrs. old at the sight of the dead body of Earl in that ditch. He was just a little boy, seeing something he quite doesn't understand but knows it's bad, scarred for life due to the sight of this.  He doesn't want "to be one of those guys".  And the sad part is that he can't admit his love, desire and willingness to be with Jack, the only love and happiness of his life.**
kathy