The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing

[PetterG]

I agree with You,
the visit at Jack parents etc are taking place in September-October, ie before November

the scenes with Alma JR is just an epilogue a year or two later, the 'real' story begins and ends with a truck driving in the blue-green landscape (and Ennis carrying a brown paper bag)

(this is discussed a lot in S & I)

[Rosewood]

I agree with You,
the visit at Jack parents etc are taking place in September-October, ie before November

the scenes with Alma JR is just an epilogue a year or two later, the 'real' story begins and ends with a truck driving in the blue-green landscape (and Ennis carrying a brown paper bag)

(this is discussed a lot in S & I)

Yeah, nothing new to report, I know.
But it seems that every time I see the film, I just want to hash over some things.
Works on me that way.

Maybe it's just that I need to bounce ideas around and get the feedback.
Repetitive though I may  be.

Yes, the film begins and ends with those damned green hills.

The father/daughter scene is nothing but epilogue.
As is, I suppose, our glimpse of Ennis's shrine to Jack.

[CANSTANDIT]

It occurred to me, while watching the film yet again the other day, that in the end
when Ennis drives away from Lightning Flats, the scenery is as green as it was when
he first arrived that fateful day twenty years before. Has anyone else noticed this?
(Well, of course you have. This is me being late to the dance yet again.  )
His pickup drives away left to right through that lush and verdant green we first
saw in the opening.

So, if this is meant to be November, it is an unusually green one.

Especially since he's just left that decrepit old ranch where everything is either rusted
brown or shades thereof.

So, I've come to the conclusion, and altered my thinking once again, that it is late summer
when Ennis finds out about Jack's death. NOT November at all. And certainly, NOT after
November.

Now before everyone jumps on me with assorted 'proofs' of why this can't be so.
And yes we've spent way too much time hashing over the timeline thing to bother
about it now at this late date, but what the heck. That 'green' really got to me.

Ennis has sent the postcard stating that '...it looks like November...' before they can meet
again, say, in July or August. Jack is already dead. He's died shortly after arriving back
in Texas after their last meeting up in the mountains. Ennis is unaware of this.

The postcard comes back marked 'deceased' almost immediately as we know from the
postoffice's practise of kicking back mail of this sort. (Someone on the forum actually
checked this out with the post office.) So it might still be early October or even late
August when Ennis finds out. This would still coincide with AP's line that '...it was
months...' before he found out.

So the green he drives through, in the film, makes more sense.

And no, I don't believe for one moment that it is the next Spring. Ennis would NEVER
have sat through November without word from Jack without sending out, at least,
ANOTHER post card inquiring where the hell was he. More than one postcard would
have been returned. Failing that, he would have called. Despite the implosion, he and Jack had 'torqued' things back almost to the way they were. I firmly believe this.

But, as usual, something else occurred to me.
Something outlandish.
How about this:
how about if Ang Lee decided that the 'timeline' didn't matter. For purposes of the
film, he went for the poetic allegory and not the specific reality.

How about if he thought that what mattered was NOT the actual time, but the IDEA.
Poetic license.

Ennis is forced to drive through that green landscape as a kind of 'torturuous lesson'.
Just as twenty years before he was driven past these same exact hills rich with the promise
of what was to come, so he's forced to drive through and leave that spent promise
behind. And this time he carries the shirts with him. The only existing 'proof' of his and
Jack's love. The only 'thing' left of Brokeback. I mean it is a stake through the heart.
That green just knocked me for a loop.

Yeah, maybe this belongs over in S&I, but hard to stop thoughts midway.

 

Rosewood, I think this discussion fits well right here, my friend..I hope the mods agree.

I have always thought it was August-Ennis is sitting depressed in the cafe, I think, because he has not heard from Jack, and either August is upon him-or has just passed. He may think Jack has quit him.....
I don't think it would take that long for the postcard to get returned; the family would think to stop the mail as soon as they started getting influxes of it for Jack, that they couldn't handle-does that make sense? And the coats being warn are lightweight-, by Ennis, Cassie and Carl-and that sunlight sure is bright...I do think it is Indian Summer, after the real summer-so Aug/Sept has always been my vote.
 .

and would it not be perfectly symobolic for Ennis' official final parting from Jack, ie, the postcard, to happen as it did 20 years ago-in August?

[jnov]

how about if Ang Lee decided that the 'timeline' didn't matter.

god, i so agree with this!!!

even if AL didn't do it on purpose, who the hell cares if it was august, september, october or november?  not me!

the timeline is irrelevant as far as i am concerned.  it is the emotional journey that matters, whereever that might have fallen on the calendar.

thank you for saying this.

[Ministering angel]

I must be getting old since I'm avoiding rehashing the time thing again!  But don't forget Rosewood that Jack's room is hot. I agree with you that it's around September that he goes there.

As for the opening and closing landscapes, that's just visual impact, I think. I doubt that they worried too much about how green the grass was.

[Rosewood]

how about if Ang Lee decided that the 'timeline' didn't matter.

god, i so agree with this!!!

even if AL didn't do it on purpose, who the hell cares if it was august, september, october or november?  not me!

the timeline is irrelevant as far as i am concerned.  it is the emotional journey that matters, whereever that might have fallen on the calendar.

thank you for saying this.

CSI, Angel and jnov:

Landscape of the heart.

That's how I've decided to look at these last scenes.

[Sandy]

Perhaps these two scenes are meant to be seen symbolically, rather than literally so that the actual time line and foliage would not be paramount.

[Brokeback_1]

always thought of the two driving scenes as bookends. Ennis ARRIVES IN SIGNAL THROUGH DAWN, HE DRIVES FROM LIGHTENING FLAT THROUGH SUNSET. Cinematic bookends, which mark the beginning and end of the story. In November that landscape would be wintry up there, brown. In September, brown and hot. In Oct, it depends, it could be green and hot at the same time. The timeline wouldn't matter as much as the impact, IMO.

[Bobby19in1963]

I've been sympathetic to Bobby since the day he joined the Cullen forums, and was one of the first people to exchange PMs with him, but I'm thinking that a lot of this not-about-the-movie stuff belongs in the ''support'' threads.

You're right, Lance.  I think I will check out the support group thread.

Bobby

[CANSTANDIT]

Perhaps these two scenes are meant to be seen symbolically, rather than literally so that the actual time line and foliage would not be paramount.

allright, Sandy! Going symbolic on us!! I love it....

[Rosewood]

Very pertinent article about films in the January 8th New Yorker.
"BIG PICTURES" Hollywood looks for a future. By David Denby.
A kind of general round up of where the industry might be going, etc.

I found it especially interesting because he mentions BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN
several times. One paragraph, especially, caught my eye:

"I looked at "Brokeback Mountain" on a portable DVD player with a seven inch
screen and headphones - the kind of rig people use on airplanes and in jury
waiting rooms. The focus was precise, the color bright. And, through the headphones,
I heard such extraordinary details as the flip-flip-flip of the rain on the tent when
Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger are up in the mountains. Yet there was something
wrong. I was not IN the mountains. The grandeur of the terrain is not something the
men are necessarily conscious of, but the massiveness of the mountain range, the
startling clarity of the air, the violence of the weather enlarge the experience of feelings
they have no words for and can't control. It you watch the movie on a small screen,
you're not living within this great breathtaking, palpable place. The small screen takes
the emotion out of the landscape."

BBM on the big screen has escaped me, so all I know is what I've seen on my television.
But that doesn't stop me yearning. Yeah, watching on a seven inch screen would kind
of limit the impact.

The article also goes on to talk about the people at Focus Features and their blog
strategy. Which, judging by the strength of our Forum, worked a treat.

Anyway, the reason I post this on here is that we had been discussing landscape
earlier. And I liked the mention of landscape as emotion. It goes to how the film is
structured, after all.

I also like Denby's idea of the landscape as a stand-in for words unspoken and emotions
felt by both men though they may have seemed unaware of their surroundings. Yeah, think
of it. Think of all that space. ALL that beauty. Brokeback does work its magic on Jack and
Ennis. Four years later in the hotel room, Jack belatedly acknowledges:
"Ol' Brokeback got us good..."
Never thought of it that way before.
Makes some kind of poetic sense.

Off the top of my head, I can think of only one other film where the landscape is used in
this fashion and that is Caleb Deschanel's use of island fantasy to get into the horse's
psyche in THE BLACK STALLION.

[desperadum]

Thanks for the heads up, Rosewood. The current New Yorker sits forlornly on my kitchen table, unread. I'll had to check that out. And I do agree with David Denby - I found viewing the DVD to be an overall unsatisfying experience, so I stopped some time ago, thinking I would wait for an opportunity to see it on a big screen again. But then, on New Year's Day I submitted to it. I have to say, it was devastating. I cried bitter tears and afterwards felt lethargic and very depressed. Not a great way to start the new year! 

[Ministering angel]

Maybe not, but it's an excellent way to assess the ongoing power of the film. It's amazing how seeing it for the 9th 10th whatever time can still produce those awful miseries that hang around for ages.

[jnov]

i swear i won't place more than one foot off the path ..

but speaking of landscape as an intregal part of the movie - ever seen Never Cry Wolf?!


back on the path firmly with both feet. 

i recently said, somewhere, that when i watched the movie a couple days ago, i noticed for the first time the mountains.  doesn't that sound ridiculous!!!  i never saw it on the big screen.  only on my TV in the states and on my computer here.  maybe i was too busy watching the boys.  i don't know.  but suddenly, this time i saw the sky and the mountains and the light and the amazingness of the landscape.

it blew me away!!

[Rosewood]

Thanks for the heads up, Rosewood. The current New Yorker sits forlornly on my kitchen table, unread. I'll had to check that out. And I do agree with David Denby - I found viewing the DVD to be an overall unsatisfying experience, so I stopped some time ago, thinking I would wait for an opportunity to see it on a big screen again. But then, on New Year's Day I submitted to it. I have to say, it was devastating. I cried bitter tears and afterwards felt lethargic and very depressed. Not a great way to start the new year! 

I couldn't live without my New Yorker.
Love the damned thing.

Yeah, it's a great article by Denby. I like him. Don't ALWAYS agree with him,
but hey, nobody's perfect. 
After you read it I'd love to know what you think, Des. He seems to have
a good handle on the inevitability of where the industry is going. I like that he feels that
big screens will always have a place. I tend to agree with the need for BIG screens for CERTAIN films;
those with BIG natures, especially, but other than that, I'm fine watching movies on my tv.
Probably because most movies are just so-so. Best home innovation: the fast forward button.

Yes, jnov, I agree about NEVER CRY WOLF. Although I haven't seen it in years and yes,
I did see in on the big screen in its debut. Worth checking out again, think I'll queue it up
on my Netflix line. Thanks for the reminder.

Of course, to my mind, there's little that can EVER match the awesome beauty of THE BLACK
STALLION. The cinematography is sublime. (Only word I can think of.)
The beauty of it actually makes you weep. To those of you who haven't seen this film,
I say, ignore the fact that it is based on a children's book. This is definitely a film to be appreciated
more from an adult point of view than a child's.
Whole sections of it, as in Brokeback, are done in silence.
It is a visual poem.
But there, I've said my piece. I will now wander back onto the reservation. 

Having said that, I often wonder what BROKEBACK would have looked like had Deschanel done
the photography. Not that I wish it, just that I wonder. Still, I am satisfied with the work done
by Pietro, especially in the opening sequence, and in the scenes between the FNIT and the SNIT
and later, in the final confrontation. The way the camera is used as a witness there is most
effective.

Yes, there is a wrenching quality to the DVD when played on a good tv.
It's probably because you are your own private audience to heartbreak.
You feel free to let your own emotions guide you, whereas in public, you'd put the reins on.
Brokeback seems to pull you, lure you in, maybe, unlike most other films I've watched.
There is definitely a close, mesmerizing quality that might escape you on the big screen.
But I'm only guessing.