The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing

[CANSTANDIT]

One of the big ones is the way the pissing scene is alluded to in other ways, like Ennis's look towards the bathroom as he climbs the stairs (my interpretation) and Jack washing clothes naked.

It's not just speech, it's descriptions as well, and I'm caught short. These things grab my attention then go.

Dare I mention the way they don't really look at each other and, if you think about it, they never really talk about the sex either. Some pretty fundamental issues are woven into the script.

Do you see this as alluding to no face to face? If so, then the movie makers took that literally.....

[Desecra]

I'm sure you know that I think the face to face thing is definitely in there.  It's not just the eye contact - it's their positioning.  They hardly ever face each other, even after the reunion.

[Ministering angel]

One of the big ones is the way the pissing scene is alluded to in other ways, like Ennis's look towards the bathroom as he climbs the stairs (my interpretation) and Jack washing clothes naked.

It's not just speech, it's descriptions as well, and I'm caught short. These things grab my attention then go.

Dare I mention the way they don't really look at each other and, if you think about it, they never really talk about the sex either. Some pretty fundamental issues are woven into the script.

Do you see this as alluding to no face to face? If so, then the movie makers took that literally.....

Definitely. I think the writers gave all those themes a good representation while softening the story a little for mainstream audiences. And much of the softening was applied later. The original script is much harder.

[freetraveller]

hmmm-ok. I find it fascinating , how the producers said they used virtually every line in the book to make the movie-and it you watch the film ever more closely, its true:

Book:
Ennis: Took me a bout a year to figure out I shouldna let you outta my sites...

Movie:
Ennis: How long ya know this guy for?
AJ: a bout a year.

The writers have shown great economy here: they've connected the two experiences; and they've used a line from the book in a different way.

Clever, CSI. I hadn't thought of that before.
I still wish the scriptwriters had kept the original from  Ennis in the motel scene. 

[Ministering angel]

I wish I'd kept the original Ennis from the motel room, plus the film one for comparison.

[CANSTANDIT]

I wish they'd kept in the part of the motel scene before Ennis is all spread-eagle and spent and wet....

[Ministering angel]

Oh you mean when he exhausted himself doing manly pushps in the shower?

[FoS]

hmmm-ok. I find it fascinating , how the producers said they used virtually every line in the book to make the movie-and it you watch the film ever more closely, its true:

Book:
Ennis: Took me a bout a year to figure out I shouldna let you outta my sites...

Movie:
Ennis: How long ya know this guy for?
AJ: a bout a year.

The writers have shown great economy here: they've connected the two experiences; and they've used a line from the book in a different way.

There  are a number of other examples, I think, such as:

Alma sitting in Ennis' lap becomes Alma doing a reverse dozy embrace, to perhaps remind us of what is going on in Ennis' head-

I think the film is very clever in this way, moving stuff around.

Examples?

The "slow-motion, but headlong, irreversible fall", and book end:
 
ENNIS and ALMA are in a toboggan, about to slide down the hill.
They start down, ALMA squeals in delight; Ennis whoops it up.
At the bottom, the toboggan turns over.

What a way to start a marrige.

[CANSTANDIT]

Good one, FixorStand-hadn't thought of it that way before. But the prods did say they used virtually every line in the short story-very creatively in this case, I'd say!

[Ministering angel]

'No way to get it right with my old man' was shifted from the not-included pissing scene to the first conversation in the bar.
I suspect the "asphyxiating by sheep smell" was a nod to the use of words like "chokey" etc. to hint at Jack's death.

[CANSTANDIT]

above...smart, Mini. I forgot Jack had said that in the bar....

I also like the 'tent don't look right', and Jack says,'well it ain't goin nowhere, let it be'!

then later, Ennis says, '..just let me be......etc...I'm nowhere, I'm nothin'.

They never say, 'let be, let be' as is Jack's thought. But they each speak the words at diff times: Jack telling Ennis to let  it be at the beginning, before FNIT; Ennis telling Jack at the end, after the threat of 'quit'.

I sense Jack's let it be, is really about the relationship (parading as the tent that doesn't look right to Ennis); and at the end, the truth comes out: Ennis wants Jack to let HIM be; the weight has shifted from the relationship to Ennis. I see this as part of the devastation for Jack. Ennis is what don't look right now....

[Desecra]

'Never enough time, never enough' is another good line which made it in - more specifically from Jack's point of view in the film.

[Rosewood]

.....The "slow-motion, but headlong, irreversible fall", and book end:
 
ENNIS and ALMA are in a toboggan, about to slide down the hill.
They start down, ALMA squeals in delight; Ennis whoops it up.
At the bottom, the toboggan turns over.

What a way to start a marrige.

Sort of reminds me of Edith Wharton's novel, ETHAN FROME.
The pivotal toboggan thing.

[CANSTANDIT]

The use of mirrors for self-reflection, maybe, is a really nice edition to the film:
I think we touched on this a long time ago...
Jack sees only Ennis the two times he looks in a mirror-shaving, and leaving Signal. And Ennis is in the center of the circle, each time. Already Jack's world revolves around him-he does not see himself. His boundaries are murky with Ennis-so he sees Ennis instead.
Whereas, the scene where Ennis opens up the medicine cabinet-we see his opposing reflection-him seeing himself as he likes to think he is; the opposite of what he really is-straight vs gay.
I also like how in his truck, as Alma Jr is getting out to go back home, he almost frantically looks in the rearview after her-keeping her in sight, looking for cars that could hit her, out the back window, then the mirror again-watch closely. So much is said about how he feels about her in those few seconds.
The only other persons he sees in 'the mirror' are his kids; he is still in denial over his love for Jack. The girls are an exception to Ennis's self-imposed Island. Even Jack only gets thru on his motorboat a few times a year.

I think Mini has a good theory about the girls as a subsitute, emotionally...she'll have to explain that-up for it, Mini?? I think we may need to go to S & I for that-oh, I'm so bummed out..

[Ministering angel]

If we're right about pissing in the sink as a metaphor for Ennis accepting his sexuality, then it's reflected in the three scenes with sinks (and mountain prints) where Ennis's growing sexual status is shown, when he flips Alma, when he gets the postcard, and when he's outed.