Alma & Lureen

[Brokeback_1]

I'm just getting back to these threads, which is why there is such a gap---but I always wonder if the character she portrayed had anything to do with the virtual neglect of her performance when it came to notice and awards. She was daamned good as Lureen Twist.

[mouk]

I read an article a few months ago in a glossy mag about The Devil Wears Prada and they did NOT mention Lureen among her past roles. I took this as an insult to her acting capacity.

The progress from a lively, passionate rodeo girl to the disappointed but still loving wife, to the bitter wife at the dance and the  almost empty shell of a widow with plenty of resentment but still enough love to cry when the truth is revealed, was not easy and she could not have portrayed it more convincingly. The telephone call is just extraordinary, and her look when Jack takes Lashawn to the dance floor even more. Where did this 22 year old girl pull those desperately disappointed, neglected wife emotions from? She deserved much more recognition for her achievement.

[Brokeback_1]

I read an article a few months ago in a glossy mag about The Devil Wears Prada and they did NOT mention Lureen among her past roles. I took this as an insult to her acting capacity.

The progress from a lively, passionate rodeo girl to the disappointed but still loving wife, to the bitter wife at the dance and the  almost empty shell of a widow with plenty of resentment but still enough love to cry when the truth is revealed, was not easy and she could not have portrayed it more convincingly. The telephone call is just extraordinary, and her look when Jack takes Lashawn to the dance floor even more. Where did this 22 year old girl pull those desperately disappointed, neglected wife emotions from? She deserved much more recognition for her achievement.

mouk, what you wrote made me remember something...months ago I ran across an up-to-date magazine in a doctor's office, one of those film things. Being bored I read it. It had articles on Jake Gyllenhaal AND Michelle Williams and in both cases their filmiography neglected to mention...Brokeback Mountain. It was one of those things geared to teenagers. I remember thinking that it was logical---be safe, don't even MENTION anything homo, you might get a parental protest or a religious complaint! But it was not only offensive but downright idiotic.

[lauren]

I read an article a few months ago in a glossy mag about The Devil Wears Prada and they did NOT mention Lureen among her past roles. I took this as an insult to her acting capacity.

The progress from a lively, passionate rodeo girl to the disappointed but still loving wife, to the bitter wife at the dance and the  almost empty shell of a widow with plenty of resentment but still enough love to cry when the truth is revealed, was not easy and she could not have portrayed it more convincingly. The telephone call is just extraordinary, and her look when Jack takes Lashawn to the dance floor even more. Where did this 22 year old girl pull those desperately disappointed, neglected wife emotions from? She deserved much more recognition for her achievement.

mouk, what you wrote made me remember something...months ago I ran across an up-to-date magazine in a doctor's office, one of those film things. Being bored I read it. It had articles on Jake Gyllenhaal AND Michelle Williams and in both cases their filmiography neglected to mention...Brokeback Mountain. It was one of those things geared to teenagers. I remember thinking that it was logical---be safe, don't even MENTION anything homo, you might get a parental protest or a religious complaint! But it was not only offensive but downright idiotic.

I've noticed this often in articles about Heath as well (some articles, not all). No mention of BBM. I agree with you. It is offensive and it drives me a  crazy that they feel they can't mention the great performances of these actors in such a lauded and great film. It's as if BBM was never made. In some articles, they mention Jake's or one of the actor's previous films and skip right over BBM and mention their roles before BBM. On IMBD, Heath's background info section (not his list of films) still isn't brought up to date to include BBM.

[myrine]

I was about to post this in 'the phone call thread', and I've even quoted someone from there, but what I say doesn't have much to do with it, so I hope this is the place.

Wouldn't a cold-hearted person have aged more happily than that, indifferent to her husband's lack of interest in her? Her evolution from a fiery girl to a bitter woman would seem to show that she built an armour to hide her feelings of sadness and disappointement, keepig a brave face in formt of Jack, her parents and the gossipy Childress community.  Even her excessive involvement with the business could be a coping strategy. Her neglect of details (nail polish splashes on finger, decaying teeth) while trying to keep up appearances with elegant clothes, lots of make-up and peroxide hair also betray her disarray.

I couldn't agree more with this. When I watched the film for the first time, one of the things that hit me was how hard these people were -or had to be-, that their life-conditions determined them and hardened them so much from the outside in. I guess everything is written in our faces and gestures and voices. It fascinated me how Ennis (especially) and Jack lowered their heads and hid their eyes behind their hats. Ennis walks hat in hand into the tent, wacks off Jack's hat in the reunion, and puts on his hat before telling Jack that "it ain't gonna be like that".

Lureen, as the years pass, finds her armor in make-up and peroxide hair - she hardens herself that way. We see her young, bright and smart. And then, years later, young but old (like Jack), we see her all cynical, sour and hard.

With "hard" I don't mean cold. Like Ennis, she's hard until something slaps her in the face by surprise, no matter the walls she has built. And looks a little ridiculous, like a Christmas tree, with all the things she has put on to cover herself and to make herself attractive at the same time.

[Ministering angel]

I've always felt so sorry for Lureen in the scene with Randall and LaShawn. She is deliberately taking a shot at Jack, and yet when he asks LaShawn to dance, leaving Lureen stuck like a shag on a rock with Randall, she looks so vulnerable and lost. In the film she comes across as a lively and pleasant woman who just doesn't blossom within her marriage, and so maybe makes a go of the business as a substitute. The dance and phone call scenes make me feel that her hard exterior really isn't all that thick. She's learned to cope, that's all.

And yet Jack isn't especially distant or unkind; he's just not there for her in the way she would have expected him to be. Two nice people who should never have got married to each other.

[Marz]

yeah the bit where jack asks lashawn to dance is cruel and even though she shoots him a dirty look you can tell shes deeply hurt by what hes done

[CANSTANDIT]

I agree.

They were smart to have Anne Hathaway play that role-she made Lureen sympathetic, and if we are constantly given Jack's negative  pov of her, then that is a hard image to maintain. He, after all, had no business marrying her, especially not wanting children, and knowing what he knew about himself. He was not conflicted, like Ennis was, unless we are to assume he too, thought he would be made straight by marrying a woman. I don't think so.....So Lureen is never fully known by us.

I do think its possible she did get pregnant, and he felt obligated. That is a strong possibility, given Jack's statement about kids. It would appear it was an accident, then, and he may have just been doing the right thing, which also happened to give him a good cover, too.

AP certainly did set this story up a certain way, to make certain outcomes almost inescapable.

[Ministering angel]

While it may be that the son's conception was accidental, the use of the name Lureen certainly gives us a strong clue as to why Jack was attracted to her in the first place. Something about her was deeply attractive to Jack. Was it her money? - the contrast between starving poor Jack and daddy's rich little girl Lureen is pretty strong. Was it her personality? - we get no sense of what she was like at the beginning, only that she turns into a hard-headed businesswoman and she's cold when she speaks to Ennis. Was it her looks? - she' s a cute little old Texas gal according to Jack but he's hardly likely to admit he married a dog 

I think what I'm wondering about is the level of Jack's calculation when it comes to Lureen. He may have been genuinely attracted to her, quite apart from all the other reasons to marry - money, position, safety from gossip, companionship. AP did say that both men loved their wives "in a way".

I wonder why there was never another child. We know why Ennis and Alma didn't have any more but in Jack's and Lureen's case it was more likely to have been a deliberate decision. He didn't want any and maybe she had the one she wanted in order to get out of her father's control.

[CANSTANDIT]

Re: having more kids. I was just puzzling over that not too, too long ago. It seems to me, Lureen would've simply used birth control to continue her career, once she saw how much attention a child takes. She after all left much of the worry to Jack, right? And I'm sure it was fine with him, to not have any more. The pill made its appearance in the early 60's, so she'd have full access to it once the baby boy-LD's heir-was born. She probably did it for her father, then said, 'ok,now ME.' I think her choice of Jack was both a convenience and a rebellion against LD. He probably resented Jack even more, since he managed to produce the heir..but I digress...

The complete opposite was true for Ennis and Alma-both wanted kids. In fact, hetero sex became an emblem for that in Ennis's mind-if he wasn't going to impregnate her, he'd just as soon roll over and go to sleep.

It appears, Lureen and Jack most likely still had at least occasional sex long after Bobby was born-unless the marriage tanked much, much earlier, but Jack feared saying anything to Ennis, until he was near the breaking point of the night before the last argument. I can see that, too..Jack was willing to wait for Ennis year to year, until the divorce, when the downward spiral starts, and he finds ways to spend his money (on men). By that time Lureen was deeply entrenched in the business, and it is not only possible, but likely, that her outlet became the business. She simply may not have been as interested anymore, and Jack certainly wasn't, if he was having one-night stands with men. Isn't it awful, how all four of them-Ennis and Alma, and Jack and Lureen were forced into these contortions, over the love that dare not speak its name-Jack and Ennis?

[freetraveller]

I wonder why there was never another child. We know why Ennis and Alma didn't have any more but in Jack's and Lureen's case it was more likely to have been a deliberate decision. He didn't want any and maybe she had the one she wanted in order to get out of her father's control.

I tend to agree.
If the pill was available in the US from the early '60s, why didn't Alma make use of it?
I mean, it's painfully clear to me she's not against having more kids from Ennis unless he gets a regular job and becomes more dependable at least in financially supporting his family, so why would she leave the decision not to have more kids to Ennis by asking him to use condoms, and not take it upon herself by using the pill?
Unless she already wanted out of the marriage and subconsciously wanted to give Ennis one last chance with her request for him to use rubbers? 

[CANSTANDIT]

I am guessing, by Ennis's reaction to her kind of desperate request to him to use a condom, that this may have come up before, and he may have made it clear he thought that it was wrong. He 'refused' to use the condom....So maybe she was just trying to reason with him-or perhaps, push him away, too. It appears that way in the movie.

 I think he really hoped to be a happy heterosexual husband and father, but deep down, he could not be-so the motivation for being with Alma became a rationalization, I think, about reproducing with her. Because he needed that cover to convince himself he was not gay. So therefore, he needed an excuse to replace the emotions he did not feel for her-but felt for Jack.

He needed to give himself a good reason to have sex with her, when he really didn't want it. Ergo, babies.

Far-fetched?

[freetraveller]

No... I think you're on to something there, Jo.
Having babies sounds like "rational" motivation enough for Ennis to keep up the facade.

I think he might also still want to try for that baby boy he said he always wanted.

[Dal]

I think he might also still want to try for that baby boy he said he always wanted.

Ooff.  I forgot that.  Yes, maybe that was going through his mind, during the little pause before he turns from her.  Suddenly, he must start to be a better provider if he is to be given a further chance to have a son; if he continues to stick to ranch work, and to quit jobs, he will not be able to get away for fishing trips. 

He must choose between a son, and Jack.  He knows he can't not see Jack; the son goes out the window.

[Ministering angel]

In the story he actually doesn't work ranch jobs once they shift back to town, and only goes back to the sort of work he likes once they split up. So in a way he is trying to do the right thing in not working the long-houred, low-paid ranch jobs he yearns for.

As for the sex, clearly he's been sodomising her all through the marriage, doesn't use contraception, and yet never manages to father that boy, or presumably any other kid during that time. (I'm assuming Alma doesn't get pregnant again.)  Not a lot of vaginal sex happening. She divorces him at least in part because of his tendency to roll to the wall and go to sleep. Not a lot of any sex happening. So why does he give up on all of it once she tells him unprotected vaginal sex is a no-no?

I think you are right, Jo, that if he doesn't have the cover of reproduction he can't do it. But why does he deny himself the thing he likes and she doesn't? Alma seems willing enough to have any sort with him, just because she wants to be close to him. (I really think she does. It's the infrequency of ANY sex or intimacy, not just the lack of vaginal sex which puts her in that slow dive.) It's as if he needed that cover of reproduction even when he was doing what didn't make many babies. I'm splitting hairs here, I think.

Jo, you said, "He needed to give himself a good reason to have sex with her, when he really didn't want it. Ergo, babies." but I think there's more to it. So long as he can pretend he is trying for another kid he can continue to do what he actually likes, i.e. anal sex, but if that cover is gone, he's left with just a desire for anal sex, and that leads him into thinking territory he'd rather avoid.

I think the hair is getting very very thin