Film vs. Book -- Which was better?

[kathy]

I wonder whether reading the book first will have much more of an effect than after having seen the movie. I came to the book after the movie and was glad of it to help me make sense of things, but the movie will always be the big picture for me.

Hi Andy --  Your post could be mine too.  I agree sooo very much!

kathy 

[CellarDweller115]

I wonder whether reading the book first will have much more of an effect than after having seen the movie. I came to the book after the movie and was glad of it to help me make sense of things, but the movie will always be the big picture for me.

Hiya Andy,

I know I'm the type of person who will read a book, and then see the movie and think:  "the book was better".  I wanted to be able to enjoy Brokeback, so while I knew there was a short story, I wouldn't read it until after seeing the movie, so I could enjoy them both for what they were.

[Goby]

I first watched the movie (didnt knew what to expect) That one totally blew me away! BBM became an obsession that summer. The last week of august we went on holiday and I descided to go and get the book to read during the vacation. The book was nice, but because it was so short it was difficult to get the feeling I got with the movie. Also you miss alot of the 'flirting' of the two men. I mean; while reading a book you can't see the subtle eye movements and body language of the characters etc.

Don't get me wrong; the book is good, but for me the movie is way way way better than the book. The reason is just the 'limitation of the written word'.

[tiawahcowboy]

I read the story before I saw the movie.

I like the book better because I was able to read and understand what Annie Proulx was trying to convey to the reader.

Larry McMurtry admitted to a Time Magazine interviewer that he padded the story with women who weren't in Ms. Proulx's story. Although he is a Texan, he didn't understand some of her Wyoming cowboy expressions.

The last time the two men were together, they mixed truth with lies. You can read that in the book. And, the way that I understood the original story, there was actually no bar girl, Cassie in the movie. In the original, Ennis made that up as sort of a repeat when they were on the mountain and he said "I'm not queer." In the latter situation Ennis was still trying to claim he wasn't queer. And so was Jack.

Jack's flashback in the book does not take place when him and Ennis are together the last time. It takes place at a later date, in my opinion. The purpose of it was Jack attempting to find a way to quit Ennis. So, he created a lie about his death and had his wife and his father in on it. In the book, John Twist practically gives it away that Jack is not dead.

Ennis finds out that Jack is "Deceased" in late fall or early winter. But, since Mr. Twist used "this spring" when talking about Jack bringing up a Texas friend to help on the ranch at Lightning Flat, he is talking about the current year and not the year Ennis got the postcard stamped "Deceased" and it was quite a while after Ennis sent that post card, too.

By reading Ms. Proulx's version, I just get the impression that friend whom Mr. Twist mentions was Jack's new lover and out of the closet.

Jack's mother actually won't lie for Jack since she's a Pentecostal and that's why she suddenly changes the subject and asks Ennis if he wants to see Jack's boyhood room.

One more comment today, in the book, Jack never worked for his father-in-law and said that the man hated his guts and even offered him money to get lost.

[tonydude]

Ennis finds out that Jack is "Deceased" in late fall or early winter. But, since Mr. Twist used "this spring" when talking about Jack bringing up a Texas friend to help on the ranch at Lightning Flat, he is talking about the current year and not the year Ennis got the postcard stamped "Deceased" and it was quite a while after Ennis sent that post card, too.

  The last meet-up was in May, which is still Spring. And, if you consider how angry Jack was, that would be consistent with his jumping to someone else.  Which didn't work.  The August meet-up was already a no-go. By the time Ennis had written about the November outing, Jack had already been killed or had the accident.
   I don't really see any textual support in the SS, or flow in the film, that allows for a gap of over a year. Nor any way that could be done without explaining it.  The screenplay, though, has a few little mis-matches that might give birth to another time-line.

ETA: forgot to say, welcome aboard, tiawahcowboy; it was a very interesting first post, and am hoping you do many more!

[Ellen (tellyouwhat)]

I read the story before I saw the movie.

I like the book better because I was able to read and understand what Annie Proulx was trying to convey to the reader.

Larry McMurtry admitted to a Time Magazine interviewer that he padded the story with women who weren't in Ms. Proulx's story. Although he is a Texan, he didn't understand some of her Wyoming cowboy expressions.

The last time the two men were together, they mixed truth with lies. You can read that in the book. And, the way that I understood the original story, there was actually no bar girl, Cassie in the movie. In the original, Ennis made that up as sort of a repeat when they were on the mountain and he said "I'm not queer." In the latter situation Ennis was still trying to claim he wasn't queer. And so was Jack.

Jack's flashback in the book does not take place when him and Ennis are together the last time. It takes place at a later date, in my opinion. The purpose of it was Jack attempting to find a way to quit Ennis. So, he created a lie about his death and had his wife and his father in on it. In the book, John Twist practically gives it away that Jack is not dead.

Ennis finds out that Jack is "Deceased" in late fall or early winter. But, since Mr. Twist used "this spring" when talking about Jack bringing up a Texas friend to help on the ranch at Lightning Flat, he is talking about the current year and not the year Ennis got the postcard stamped "Deceased" and it was quite a while after Ennis sent that post card, too.

By reading Ms. Proulx's version, I just get the impression that friend whom Mr. Twist mentions was Jack's new lover and out of the closet.

Jack's mother actually won't lie for Jack since she's a Pentecostal and that's why she suddenly changes the subject and asks Ennis if he wants to see Jack's boyhood room.

One more comment today, in the book, Jack never worked for his father-in-law and said that the man hated his guts and even offered him money to get lost.

welcome, tiawahcowboy --

I am one who read the story first -- with both film and story, many of us have gone through the same process you have gone through, in thinking about how we perceive the story and the various scenes and clues given to us by Annie Proulx.

However strongly some of us feel about a particular situation (when did the dozy embrace flashback actually happen, for example) if you share opinions with others and listen to different ideas, you may realize there is another way to see it.

I believe the dozy embrace flashback happened more than once in Jack's life, however it is only after the confrontation that we learn Jack has this cherished memory.  

Also, my reading of the story left me with the impression that Jack did work in his father-in-law's business, because later in the story he rose in position and travelled for the business, found ways to spend the money.

As for the existence of Cassie the waitress -- yes that is fleshed out -- many believe she may have never existed, on the other hand it is likely Ennis did try to date someone after his divorce, if only to keep up appearances.  

If you enjoy talking about these points there are actually in-depth threads about all of the scenes where many people have expressed ideas similar to yours, and also different points of view.

I hope you will look around the forum and join the discussion.

[kathy]

Hello Ellen --

I agree 100% with your post above.  Just feel bad that I can't post it so well!!

kathy   

[tiawahcowboy]

Jack did work in his deceased father-in-law's business.

But, it was not until Lureen inherited it.

I have the small Scribner publication of the book which looks like the DVD Cover on the outside.

There is an open space on Page 43 between where Ennis and Jack last see each other and when Jack remembers (has a flashback) about them being together up on Brokeback Mountain. That's the flashback of the dozy embrace.

In my opinion, that's when Jack decides to find a way to stop chasing after Ennis. He realized that he would never much farther in his relationship with Ennis. 

[gnash]

i have no problem seeing jack giving up on ennis too...  i mean, he wasn't stupid, and could have easily felt that he'd wasted enough of his damn time waiting for ennis to come around... yes, there was another guy, there were other guys too.

however, the part about him creating a lie, and involving his parents and lureen in the lie? stamping deceased on the card? what, did he have one made at a rubber stamp company or did he just know somebody the the US post office?  i dunno... that seems pretty far fetched, and why bother with all that rigamarole?  why not just tell ennis the truth, or just stop calling/seeing him altogether?

[kathy]

  The last meet-up was in May, which is still Spring. And, if you consider how angry Jack was, that would be consistent with his jumping to someone else.  Which didn't work.  The August meet-up was already a no-go. By the time Ennis had written about the November outing, Jack had already been killed or had the accident.
   I don't really see any textual support in the SS, or flow in the film, that allows for a gap of over a year. Nor any way that could be done without explaining it.  The screenplay, though, has a few little mis-matches that might give birth to another time-line.

   Hi Tony --

Yup.   

kathy   

[kathy]

    RE:  Partial post by gnash today:

"however, the part about him creating a lie, and involving his parents and lureen in the lie? stamping deceased on the card? what, did he have one made at a rubber stamp company or did he just know somebody the the US post office?  i dunno... that seems pretty far fetched, and why bother with all that rigamarole?  why not just tell ennis the truth, or just stop calling/seeing him altogether?"

         Answer to post from kathy today:

True enough.   
But I must add that I truly do not believe either one of them could "quit" the other.  They loved each other so.

kathy   

p.s.   Just a note:
Jack had been working for LD's company as a salesman for quite a while before that awful Thanksgiving scene with the father-in-law.  It's clearly shown in the film.  Bobby was a child when Jack (who was a salesman then) was in the truck steering ("no hands") with him.  Bobby was about ten in the Thanksgiving scene with LD.   

[Ellen (tellyouwhat)]

^^^

kathy that's true, but here we're talking about film vs book, and in the book there is no thanksgiving scene at Jack's house, or any talk about Jack as a combine salesman.

However, when it is mentioned in the book that Lureen's father has died and Jack is travelling for the business, I interpreted that to mean he had been working in the business all along.

So tiawa, please realize there are a few different ways to interpret these lines from Annie Proulx.  

That's why we have so many different threads to discuss all the nuances and details.

I don't know how many pages we have filled with discussions of whether or not Jack quit Ennis.  We even had a poll on it. (which I can't find now because it's been archived.) People tend to feel very strongly about it.  You feel he did, many feel he would have showed up in November if he had lived.

Bottom line, nobody really knows.  Nobody can know.  

[cody beach]

the newer of this

[stonash7]

Just downloaded the book ..will be reading it shortly then i can know surely which i prefer

[Cally]

I found it took several readings before I really appreciated the short story.