How Brokeback affected me

[DaveinPhilly]

I truly felt that while the movie is about gay men, yes, yes, yes-it is about gay men-it is just another way to tell the story of the human experience.  Shindler's List was about Jews-but it tore my gut up inside-and I'm not Jewish.  To be honest, I can hardly tolerate another story about the Holocaust.  I get it already-you suffered.  It's unique to humans-not to Jews-not to gays, not to Muslims, not to the poor or the rich.  No one escapes this life unscathed.  If we want to keep this discussion solely about the gay experience, I can accept that.  I guess I would just have nothing to add then.

Amymm, you obviously have a lot to add here. Great to have your thoughtful comments about a film that's deeper than would appear on the surface.

[amymm]

I appreciate those who've said I have something to offer.  I know that I do, it's just that what I have to say may seem too broad and maybe too harsh at times.   I do appreciate the gay theme of the movie.  I do think there should be more films of this nature, as they can go a long way to dispelling so many myths and misconceptions.

I worry though, if we flood the theaters with movies about the gay experience, then we run the risk of overstating the message.  That is why I mentioned movies about the Holocaust.  I'm not anti-semitic.  Many of the movies and books about the Holocaust are moving and well made.  But we hear the purpose of such movies is to make sure no one ever forgets, so it won't happen again.   And yet it happens over and over again.  We aren't learning our lessons.  People rarely take risks to help others in need if they don't belong to "their" group.

I can't think of a more perfect experience than BBM.  While I wouldn't mind more books or movies similar in nature, how can any of them come close to the impact this movie has had?  That's why I'm so adament about posting over and over again-even if I run the risk of offending.  Why am I here?  Because those men, Jack and Ennis-they are me.  Annie Proulx, Ang Lee, everyone understood that so well-they knew they were going to reach millions of people with this story-and knock them flat with their true human story.

So I would rather say-let's look for more films and books, etc that really show real human beings living real lives.  If they're gay, okay. But they could also be so many other things-and if it doesn't ring true, then it's just another two hours spent in a theater. 

[tfferg]

Regarding the statement that the American political landscape isn't relevent to non- Americans, I totally disagree. It's a well known fact that where America leads, the rest of the western world, if not the whole world tends to follow.     

You are right. In Australia, where people are proud of having shrugged off the 'cultural' cringe' in art, literature, theatre and so on, political parties, especially those on the right wing, tend to copy ideas, what passes for policies, and strategies from the right wing in the USA, unfortnately and reject the more progressive ideas that the USA also generates. Where the Republicans and 'Christian' fundamentalists go, the conservative Liberal-National Party Federal government in Australia tends to follow, from the war on terrorism, the destruction of civl liberties and human rights in its name, tax cuts for the wealthy, privatisation, opposition to the Kyoto Protocols etc all the way to strengthening laws against same-sex marriage and wedge politics.

[Garry_LH]

Amymm

I remember when you first come on. Now look at you - kicking booty and taking names, You Go with your bad self...Great posts!!! I wish I could have been on today to join in.

BBM has come back to town at the discount theatre. I am being beseiged with pleas to go see it again (Tuesday being SO far away). Big ole puppy dog eyes. He wants to take his friend but I AM standing firm on that not happening.

Jess

Jess just make sure D understands why you feel it's not a good idea for them to see BBM again.  Myself, I'm starting to see that us older folk are kicked a lot harder by this story than the younger generation. They haven't had the time to take on all the baggage we have. They still see the world as full of possibilities. I'm wondering if they see Jack and Ennis as, Whooo boy, I'm never gonna make those mistakes in my life.
Just wondering...

[DaveinPhilly]

No one escapes this life unscathed.

This relates to one of the many humbling things I learned in the wake of The Emotional Hammer (the movie). After several days of hanging around at home -- Christmas holidays in a daze -- we got on the ferry to Victoria to visit relatives. It was the first time I'd been in public and in a crowd since everything got ripped open raw by Brokeback Mountain.

I was looking around at others on the ferry, old, young, middle-aged, male, female, trans, Canadian, immigrant, tourist, and so on. And I realised "All these people have suffered or are going to suffer in their lives." I realised that everybody is human.

I can see it's pretty stupid that I didn't yet know this at 43 years old.

From that realisation it was a quick "Oh my god..." jump to further realisations. I have a responsibility to others. I need to be more human. I need to be more gentle, more accepting. I have an obligation to show my human self to others, however flawed I may be. I have to give others the opportunity to be human, by listening and by being more aware.

Yes, at 43 -- more than half way through my life -- I figured this out. But better late than never.

-=- Jerome (writ554)

Jerome, we're all working on it!

[BayCityJohn]

I appreciate those who've said I have something to offer.  I know that I do, it's just that what I have to say may seem too broad and maybe too harsh at times.   I do appreciate the gay theme of the movie.  I do think there should be more films of this nature, as they can go a long way to dispelling so many myths and misconceptions.

I worry though, if we flood the theaters with movies about the gay experience, then we run the risk of overstating the message.  That is why I mentioned movies about the Holocaust.  I'm not anti-semitic.  Many of the movies and books about the Holocaust are moving and well made.  But we hear the purpose of such movies is to make sure no one ever forgets, so it won't happen again.   And yet it happens over and over again.  We aren't learning our lessons.  People rarely take risks to help others in need if they don't belong to "their" group.

I can't think of a more perfect experience than BBM.  While I wouldn't mind more books or movies similar in nature, how can any of them come close to the impact this movie has had?  That's why I'm so adament about posting over and over again-even if I run the risk of offending.  Why am I here?  Because those men, Jack and Ennis-they are me.  Annie Proulx, Ang Lee, everyone understood that so well-they knew they were going to reach millions of people with this story-and knock them flat with their true human story.

So I would rather say-let's look for more films and books, etc that really show real human beings living real lives.  If they're gay, okay. But they could also be so many other things-and if it doesn't ring true, then it's just another two hours spent in a theater. 

amymm: I love reading your postings and I've never been offended by anything you said. If I was offended I would just ignore it and go onto the next posting.

But I do like to disagree sometimes.

I don't think we can ever have too many books or movies about the holocaust. Every holocaust story deserves to be told and every year we learn about new stories.

Every year in Bay City we have "Holocaust Remembrance Week". I think there are maybe 30 Jewish families in town. http://www.statetheatrebaycity.com/events_details.cgi?SOW=1&Autoincrement=000067

I don't think we will see a 'flood' of 'mainstream' gay themed movies. Maybe a few every year.

I had been hoping to see a movie like Brokeback Mountain for over 30 years. I look forward to the day when these stories can be told as 'just another love story'. It probably won't happen in my lifetime. We ain't there yet. Not even close.

[dsmom]

Oh, I am under no delusion that J won't see BBM (since we have a firm commitment to pick D up from school for a quick trip to town to buy two copies Tues) My refusal is based on a thing about taking another person's kid to a R rated film (and yes I am aware of the hypocricy of allowing him to see it at my house). Another example of accepting the inevitable.

Jess

[Erik]

Regarding the statement that the American political landscape isn't relevent to non- Americans, I totally disagree. It's a well known fact that where America leads, the rest of the western world, if not the whole world tends to follow.     

You are right. In Australia, where people are proud of having shrugged off the 'cultural' cringe' in art, literature, theatre and so on, political parties, especially those on the right wing, tend to copy ideas, what passes for policies, and strategies from the right wing in the USA, unfortnately and reject the more progressive ideas that the USA also generates. Where the Republicans and 'Christian' fundamentalists go, the conservative Liberal-National Party Federal government in Australia tends to follow, from the war on terrorism, the destruction of civl liberties and human rights in its name, tax cuts for the wealthy, privatisation, opposition to the Kyoto Protocols etc all the way to strengthening laws against same-sex marriage and wedge politics.

Well, for Europe this is not true. Nobody here feels the US is leading. As a matter of fact, the much debated growing cultural divide between Europe and the US has a lot to do with. Anyone with a little knowledge about European political developments knows that Europe is ahead of the US in many ways and behind in many others. But it does not look to the US for guidance. Even in the traditional 'Atlantic'countries that always have fealt a strong bond with the US because of historical, religious and famliy reasons,this is getting less.

One example; in Spain, they introduced same sex marriage! I mean SPAIN!!! a country that used to be very conservative, very catholic and very rural and with a strong macho identity.

[Sebastian]

No one escapes this life unscathed.

I was looking around at others on the ferry, old, young, middle-aged, male, female, trans, Canadian, immigrant, tourist, and so on. And I realised "All these people have suffered or are going to suffer in their lives." I realised that everybody is human.

From that realisation it was a quick "Oh my god..." jump to further realisations. I have a responsibility to others. I need to be more human. I need to be more gentle, more accepting. I have an obligation to show my human self to others, however flawed I may be. I have to give others the opportunity to be human, by listening and by being more aware.

Yes, at 43 -- more than half way through my life -- I figured this out. But better late than never.

-=- Jerome (writ554)

congratulations Jerome...  you have self-realized one of the basic tenets of Buddhism, as well as other faiths.

a beautiful example of the spiritual power of Brokeback. gives me more inspiration to take part in the Forum 'mission' of sending out DVD's to libraries. your experience might well be repeated in that thread.

also shows how loving attention to the particular [gay relationship] makes the leap to the universal [human relationship].

[Garry_LH]

http://www.secretcowboys.com/

NWguy posted this a bit ago. I'm not sure who is spoofing who here. Though, I got a good guess at what group is gonna figure it's an attack on them.   

Willy Nelson's music video of 'Cowboys are frequently secretly fond of each other.' (maybe, I got that title right)

[JoeNorthWest]

From that realisation it was a quick "Oh my god..." jump to further realisations. I have a responsibility to others. I need to be more human. I need to be more gentle, more accepting. I have an obligation to show my human self to others, however flawed I may be. I have to give others the opportunity to be human, by listening and by being more aware.

Yes, at 43 -- more than half way through my life -- I figured this out. But better late than never.

-=- Jerome (writ554)
Hi Jerome....
I am learning that it is "exactly my flaws" which give me my humanity.  When I am willing to own them and actually embrace them, I am finding that is what connects me with others on this journey....I use to think it was about being "perfect" and some how that would be attracrtive to others....and it's been right the opposite...when I am willing to be "real" flaws and all,  it gives others permission to be real....as you so beautifully stated...what a gift we give to ourselves and to those around us...thanks man...Joe

[Sebastian]

that's great, Joe. there was an article about a wonderful singer, Barbara Cook, who was teaching younger students how to overcome all the technique they'd learned, to be able to really reveal themselves to an audience. there was one young woman who sang beautifully in a very polished style. she resisted the encouragement to step out from behind her well-oiled vocal machine and get real. finally the teacher said, 'you are a beautiful woman. you don't have to prove anything to anyone. you are enough.' apparently that  packed an emotional wallop, and seemed to do the trick.

'Let be, let be.' seems like we're all just waiting to get the confirmation that we are enough, with all our flaws, etc.   That must be something of what Ennis felt when he comes back into the tent the night after their first encounter, collapses on Jack's chest as Jack intones, it's alright, it's alright.

[JoeNorthWest]

'Let be, let be.' seems like we're all just waiting to get the confirmation that we are enough, with all our flaws, etc. reminds me of when Ennis comes back into the tent the night after their first encounter, collapses on Jack's chest as Jack intones, it's alright, it's alright.

Thanks Sebastian....and I love how yo tied it back to the film....so simple hu?...Let be, let be....yet at times it seems to be the hardest thing to do.  I sure appreciate your thoughts and wisdom on this site....glad you are here....

[Boris]

"... yet he was suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream". Last night Jack Twist was in my dream. I felt that I had to share it with you. In order for it to make any sense to you, I have to explain a little at first.

Thisteen years ago I went through a rather rough patch in my life. I had two major back surgeries as result of minor accident. During that time of physical pain, I divorced. My right leg paralyzed and I had to learn how to walk properly again. During and after this process I came out, met my partner, all kinds of heavy stuff happened in my life. About a year after I was working. I work with people with psychiatric disabilities and my back was acting funny, I was uncomfortable and I found it hard to concentrate in group sessions. One of my colleagues at the time was a Rosen therapist and she suggested that she would give me a massage to alleviate my discomfort. I agreed although I have to admit that Rosen being new age kinda approach didn't have much allure to me - I thought (and still do) myself to be a man of reason, "old age". Almost immediately after she began something strange happened. I entered into some kind of trance, a dream, but I wasn't sleeping.

I saw myself running. I was running over green hills and meadows, a vast open space of green grass and bushes. It looked like an English or Irish countryside, a moor. At the same time I felt the run and the wind, I could see myself from above, running fast over this open moor toward the sea glimmering far, far away. I felt such immense joy and freedom, so utter happiness while I was running that it is impossible to explain. After some time I came back, my friend looked a bit worried and said that nothing like that has ever happened to her before. I wasn't worried, I knew that it had some meaning, some message for me even I didn't know what at that time. I went back to work, much more relaxed and happy.

Last night in my dream, I am running again. I knew in my dream that this is the same place, same grass, same hills. In my dream it was very early morning, very dusky morning. There was a mist everywhere, a dusk you get on a cold morning after a warm night. In some places it was so foggy that I couldn't see properly but my feet were secure in running and I was not afraid. I felt secure in being me. I felt free. I run toward a small flickering light ahead of me and I ended up in small meadow surrounded by bush and a brook. And there was Jack Twist by the camp fire. Not Jake Gyllenhaal as Jack Twist, but someone remotely like Jake Gyllenhaal who was Jack Twist. In my dream I knew who he was without him presenting himself. He turned around, looked me in my eyes, smiled and said: "You're welcome. We have been waiting for you to come back. This is the place you are supposed to go."

And I woke up. It was six o'clock in the morning, very foggy and damp morning, rain drizzling outside, my partner breathing peacefully. I rose, went to balcony and while standing there in freezing morning, still half asleep, I realized that I have forgotten how to run.

[DaveinPhilly]

'Let be, let be.' seems like we're all just waiting to get the confirmation that we are enough, with all our flaws, etc. reminds me of when Ennis comes back into the tent the night after their first encounter, collapses on Jack's chest as Jack intones, it's alright, it's alright.

Thanks Sebastian....and I love how yo tied it back to the film....so simple hu?...Let be, let be....yet at times it seems to be the hardest thing to do.  I sure appreciate your thoughts and wisdom on this site....glad you are here....

Absolutely 100% right!