How Brokeback affected me

[1224butternut]

Unfortunately, BBM has been referred to in terms that will have a universal appeal and not frighten straight people off and I understand that, but it is a gay film.  I does have universal themes, but it is a gay film.  It is our film.  Somehow we are swept aside for what is understandable for the majority instead of making the majority recognize the wonderful worth of this film from our point of view.  Once again, it is our film.  To ever refer to it as a straight story in any way is completely wrong.  Jack and Ennis were two guys who discovered who they were.  On BBM there was no name for it, not gay, not straight, not even love.  It just was what it was.  Huge intense feelings for each other.  But in town, it is gay, the label that destroyed both characters.  We see it as the purity of uncontrollable feelings of one man for another.  Beautiful.  It is gay, it is gay, it is gay...it is not a straight story with straight characters who did something gay.  There is no need for us to ever sidestep ourselves ever again to make straight people understand us using their terms.

[whiplash]

There's no one in my life that I can talk to, and I'm hurting so bad. I can hardly bring myself to post this publicly, but I have to say it to someone, and I'm so thankful you guys are here.

BBM brought back all those memories that had been put away for so many years;memories that had begun to fade with time. Then suddenly I could think of nothing else and everything was vivid in my mind again.

My search for Billy has ended.  This afternoon I received confirmation that he passed away several years ago.  I just can't hardly stand it.  There's so much I wanted to say to him.  I feel so utterly alone now.  I've never had to grieve before...

Paul Mejack

Paul, so sorry your search did not end in the way you wanted.  I wish there was something I could say to ease your burden.  All I can think is that Billy will be in your heart forever.  That he is somewhere out in the cosmos or heaven or whatever you believe and that because of that, he is your constant companion.  I think visiting his home and grave may give you some peace of mind.  You have my hugs and humble sympathy, Lydia

[danac]

[
Your statement brings tears to my eyes.  It makes me realize that Ennis felt/knew more about his love for Jack than I have given him credit for.  To want love for his daugter means (I think) that he knows he and Jack had love.  And knowing that Ennis knows that, takes away some of the tragedy for me.

I think Annie Proulx and the screenplay tell us how much Ennis loved Jack - and that Jack knew that:
- In the story, Ennis tells Jack about wanting to puke when he left Signal
- After the reunion,by the fire, Ennis says he's "sending up a little prayer of thanks"...obviously, for being reunited with Jack

When he asks Jr. if Kurt loves her - and then looks out the window *sob* here!*, he must be thinking that he knows what that feels like and doesn't want Jr. to miss it like he did...

[danac]

Okay, guys, I need to share this.  I finally got my husband of 21 years to come see this movie with me.  We went to an afternoon showing: maybe 8 other people in the theater.  He reached over and held my hand from the final argument all the way to the end.  This was our conversation after we left the theater:

Me:  How did you like it?

Him: It was an excellent movie.  I'm glad I saw it.

Me: You didn't think it dragged or was too slow?

Him:  Not at all.  I thought the pacing was great.

Me:  Didn't you think Heath Ledger was terrific?

Him:  I thought they both were terrific.

We're silent for a minute.  I figured okay, I guess that's where we're going to leave it.  Then he turns to me and says:  "I think that's the first big movie I've seen in a long time where they got it right about how love is."  I asked what he meant, and he says: "Those guys got disappointed and hurt and angry with each other and kept on loving each other anyway.  They weren't sitting there going: "You're the love of my life.  Everything about you is perfect."  They just kept coming back and trying the best they could to give each other someone who knew what it was like for them."  And then he adds this:  "They lost everything in the end, but they were still damn lucky."

What a COOL husband! Lucky you!

[Erik]

Unfortunately, BBM has been referred to in terms that will have a universal appeal and not frighten straight people off and I understand that, but it is a gay film.  I does have universal themes, but it is a gay film.  It is our film.  Somehow we are swept aside for what is understandable for the majority instead of making the majority recognize the wonderful worth of this film from our point of view.  Once again, it is our film.  To ever refer to it as a straight story in any way is completely wrong.  Jack and Ennis were two guys who discovered who they were.  On BBM there was no name for it, not gay, not straight, not even love.  It just was what it was.  Huge intense feelings for each other.  But in town, it is gay, the label that destroyed both characters.  We see it as the purity of uncontrollable feelings of one man for another.  Beautiful.  It is gay, it is gay, it is gay...it is not a straight story with straight characters who did something gay.  There is no need for us to ever sidestep ourselves ever again to make straight people understand us using their terms.

You are so right. By making it less gay, by denying it's character, is like being in the closet again! People seem sto have trouble with a beautiful love story and acknowdleding that it is gay at the same time. Almost like that somethinj so good and noble cannot possibly be gay. No, it's a gayt sory because it is about two men in love. Nothing more, nothing less! And a gay lovestory does not have less universal appeal tha a str8 one. But this is something they have to finf out. It's something we already know for years. Do'nt want to sound excluding now, sorry if it sounds like that...

[hayek_uk]

Unfortunately, BBM has been referred to in terms that will have a universal appeal and not frighten straight people off and I understand that, but it is a gay film.  I does have universal themes, but it is a gay film.  It is our film.  Somehow we are swept aside for what is understandable for the majority instead of making the majority recognize the wonderful worth of this film from our point of view.  Once again, it is our film.  To ever refer to it as a straight story in any way is completely wrong.  Jack and Ennis were two guys who discovered who they were.  On BBM there was no name for it, not gay, not straight, not even love.  It just was what it was.  Huge intense feelings for each other.  But in town, it is gay, the label that destroyed both characters.  We see it as the purity of uncontrollable feelings of one man for another.  Beautiful.  It is gay, it is gay, it is gay...it is not a straight story with straight characters who did something gay.  There is no need for us to ever sidestep ourselves ever again to make straight people understand us using their terms.

Indeed. I wonder what led to this very properly passionate statement. Because while some of the "marketing" of the firm (originally, but less and less as the film's popularity and word of mouth took over) emphasised the universal at the expense of the specific, and glossed over in particular the internalisation of societal rejection that makes the social rejection of gay lovers so much more than a re-statement of "Romeo and Juliet".

But I do think the long period "Brokeback" has spent in the public eye; and the subtle, careful but insistent correctives that Jake and Heath have provided -- have moved understanding to the point that it is recognised that this is a gay story. Albeit a gay story that all kinds of people can identify with (and not just with respect to love, but to all aspects of failure to seize the opportunities we are given for personal fulfilment).

But the denial that BBM is a gay story -- the claim that is about two straight men who happened to have a gay "fling" together (and nothing more profound than that) -- those came from a representative of the urban gay ghetto. For them, only top-to-tail self-identified homo is gay; for them only gays in full conscious understanding of themselves and their position in society, is gay; for them only gay written, gay directed, gay acted is gay.

see
http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=101.msg119766#msg119766

And in practice that is going to mean that only one of the following is suitable for gay movies
(a) gay people in social and working environments where homosexuality is common and there is wide social recognition of it (if not acceptance), e.g. entertainment/creative and performing arts and offices;
(b) loners, outsiders and criminals;
(c) privileged elite gays - aristocrats, clergy, independently wealthy
(c) gay "villains" -- famous people who lived secret fully gay, often promiscuous lifestyles but did not come out -- e.g. Roy Cohn
(d) occupants of the gay ghetto, the more out the better, and bar culture
(e) protesters, with a gay political and/or egalitarian/socialist philosophy (including young people struggling against parents, schools or whatever) who experience greater or lesser degrees of persecution and disadvantage as a result of being completely out and/or sexual-politically active.

Not only does this exclude the possibility of understanding and identification outside all but a tiny segment of the non-gay population, but it appropriates the definition, meaning and understanding of "gay".

Needless to say, it does not include men like Jack and Ennis -- or you and me for the most part. They DO advance the gay agenda, and, ironically, BBM does not do the propaganda job they want- so they have no interest in it.

[danac]

Good morning...started my day out as usual since early January: a visit to YouTube for my required *sob and pant * workout!
If you all have not seen the "COME WHAT MAY" video on YouTube, please do.
The song is from Moulin Rouge but the lyrics and the timing of the montage are perfect and soooo moving.
Try it.

[Erik]

Going to see the movie 2nite for the second time... cannot wait....

Actually, now that i realize it, BbM did something to me that i did not realize as yet.... it made me feel proud, proud to be gay...

i was not ashamed of it, at the worst maybe at times uncomfortable, but to feel proud is somethin new... Does anyone know what i mean?

[hayek_uk]

Going to see the movie 2nite for the second time... cannot wait....

Actually, now that i realize it, BbM did something to me that i did not realize as yet.... it made me feel proud, proud to be gay...

i was not ashamed of it, at the worst maybe at times uncomfortable, but to feel proud is somethin new... Does anyone know what i mean?

Oh yes.

And that's one of the reasons I feel so grateful to Jake and Heath - it's something they've given me. And the reason they could do it, was because they could see it, that being gay was something to be proud of.

[Mejack]

. . . after BBM, it became unbearably impossible to not find him, to rush to him, to tell how much you loved him through all the years you held his warmth and his breath and his friendship as part of your body, as is the memory, like the skin. O Paul, I am heartbroken for you after you searched everywhere. (The lines from Kurt Weill's Speak Low come to mind:
 
"O, I have looked everywhere you can look without wings
and I've seen a great variety of interesting things,
but there never was you.
No, there never was anywhere you.")

Your anguished search for Billy has remained with me for weeks and I feared what you have learned to be a possibility, even likely. We are like blind and deaf people on this internet together, but without the succor and comfort of touch, of embrace. Still know that an anonymous stranger weeps with you this evening as I am deeply moved by the lifetime vigil of your love for Billy, your need to find Billy, to tell him the truth: that you loved him always and as long as you have breath you will have loved him. And he knew he could count on that.  Your anguish is shared by many of us on this forum. . .

sagha/Mo,

My dear "anonymous stranger,"
I think you understand me better than I understand myself.
Thank you for the words of comfort.  The lines from Kurt Weill are wonderful.
The tears won't stop.  Maybe that's the way it's supposed to be.

Paul

[wyomen]

Going to see the movie 2nite for the second time... cannot wait....

Actually, now that i realize it, BbM did something to me that i did not realize as yet.... it made me feel proud, proud to be gay...

i was not ashamed of it, at the worst maybe at times uncomfortable, but to feel proud is somethin new... Does anyone know what i mean?

I know exactly how you feel. Tonight I am going for my 5th time but this time it will be in my town with my friends. I really can't believe that we have come this far and I am looking forward to complete acceptance. That is my dream.

[louisev]

My dear "anonymous stranger,"
I think you understand me better than I understand myself.
Thank you for the words of comfort.  The lines from Kurt Weill are wonderful.
The tears won't stop.  Maybe that's the way it's supposed to be.

Paul

Paul I just wanted to add my two cents here.  I think that if Billy's wife had not wanted to speak with you, she would not have invited you.  You loved him, and clearly she did too: it shows a certain courage in her that she would be so willing to invite you to meet her.  It might help both of you to tell one another how much you cared about him, for closure for both of you.  You haven't anything to be ashamed about, and it is a unique opportunity for you to acknowledge your feelings and your relationship with him, and move on.

[DaveinPhilly]

Umm... I broke down in tears, actually.  And yeah, he's a wonderful guy.  He just keeps on coming back and standing right there next to me, no matter what.  I'm damn lucky, and I know it.

Jenny - you are really blessed!

[DaveinPhilly]

Going to see the movie 2nite for the second time... cannot wait....

Actually, now that i realize it, BbM did something to me that i did not realize as yet.... it made me feel proud, proud to be gay...

i was not ashamed of it, at the worst maybe at times uncomfortable, but to feel proud is somethin new... Does anyone know what i mean?

You've hit the nail on the head! It made me proud too. The old "gay pride" thing always seemed like a weak excuse for a political stance, but I am proud to be a gay man and much of this is due to BBM.

Enjoy Eric.

DaveinPhilly

[VermontJohn]

Brokeback Mountain affected us Vermonter's so much that we are trying to name one of our Mountains after the movie. We are doing so out of respect for the author, actors and the concept of love between two people no matter what their sex. More information can be read at www.brokebackmountainvermont.com.

In addition, we made the news last night. The story can be seen at http://www.thechamplainchannel.com/news/8219212/detail.html

The TV station created a poll too  LOL!  Please give us a hand by placing your vote.