How Brokeback affected me

[Garry_LH]

It sure ain't BBM, it sure ain't perfect, but if you like movies with layers within layers, see 'Donnie Darko'. A movie that dances with that question, just what is real between here and  madness. I love movies like this.
Garry
Jake pulled off this role... you'd just have to see it.

[andy]

I've had a growing sense of BBM becoming some sort of personal barometer in these past weeks, but as of yesterday's viewing, I can say with some conviction it's definitely that. ... If it's remotely Brokeback, my radar will spot it at a thousand paces.  had a 'moment' this morning that had me chortling at myself.

I know the feeling.  Completely unrelated things will pull lines of the screenplay into my head.  My "chortling moment" was a few days ago after dinner.  I asked people if they wanted coffee.  BBM moment.  I jerked up my head and in my best Wyoming accent said, "Want a cup of coffee, don't you?  Piece of cherry cake?"  And then burst out in hysterical laugher.  People thought I had utterly lost it!

Thanx guys for making me laugh so early in the day. What a great start to any day, eh?

[brianr]

Went to my first movie today since seeing Brokeback . Saw the shorts of "Proof" with Jake which had me reminiscing and perhaps it will be my next outing.  However the movie I did see  was "Fateless" a basically true story of a young Hungarian Jewish boy who went through the German Concentration camps. I have been to Auschwitz so also had me close to tears. But it was a reality check. Okay Brokeback reminds me that due largely to my fundamentalist upbringing my love life has been non-existent and I nearly always go to movies on my own and took myself to a concert last week for my 62nd birthday. But I have always lived in relative comfort with a worthwhile profession and a supportive family. I do not think I would have lasted through the horrors of the Holocaust. That young boy went onto win a Nobel prize for literature.

[Poohbunn]

I WAS over there in the eyelashes and I see this pic and I fall to pieces. It has never happened before! I thought the tears were gone.

Do they ever really go away?  I don't think they will.  Somebody will say something, or we will see something that reminds us of the Jack and Ennis.  Even in dreams, they'll come by. The tears are just the surface, waiting for the next time.

[Redbrit]

It sure ain't BBM, it sure ain't perfect, but if you like movies with layers within layers, see 'Donnie Darko'. A movie that dances with that question, just what is real between here and  madness. I love movies like this.
Garry
Jake pulled off this role... you'd just have to see it.

Oo-oo-oo! I'm so glad you said that: It just reminded me of something. I was in a local bookshop browsing as is my wont and I checked out their top 20 listing of books - Brokeback Mountain still there, although slipping down the rankings a bit - but still, for so late it's holding up well. Upstairs at the same shop, I noticed they had a top 20 DVD set. No BBM, of course, but it raised a smile. Here's why. No.1 - Curse of the Warerabbit; No.2 - The Constant Gardener; further down the rankings - The Brothers Grimm, staring Matt Damon and Heath Ledger and sitting over in the next display among the cheap offers - Donnie Darko, still maintaining its cult status and bringing in customers years after its release. And that other film? What was it called - Bash, Slam, Smash? Something like that. After winning Best Picture Oscar it was...nowhere to be seen. 

[hayek_uk]

So, I saw another "best film" nominee (and best actor Oscar winner) last night. I went to Capote, and did not enjoy it at all.

I didn't go with any competitive outlook, or intending to make comparison with BBM. Indeed, I was looking forward to it, anticipating something of real quality. But it seemed neither beautiful, nor thought-provoking, nor involving, nor entertaining. I simply found it BORING. The character of Capote himself I found not only very unsympathetic, but also uninteresting. His life and art as portrayed in the film were matters of no concern to me.

On the main “issue” that has been discussed a lot, I found PSH’s performance self-evidently accomplished (and very long), but not at all outstanding even among his own oeuvre. In the way of these things, I accept that they won’t give an Oscar to a 25-year old actor, so Heath L. had no chance no matter what. But on the merits, his portrayal of Ennis was, in my view, so far superior to PSH in every way, technically and intuitively. There was really no competition. I do really find it hard to understand how Hoffman took every single award. There must be something I’m missing, that everyone rates it so highly – but my view is that it is a performance that will be quickly forgotten. I’m sure I have already forgotten most of it.

But even more bewildering to me was the idea that Capote was a “gay” themed movie. When the failure to award Brokeback best picture Oscar elicited accusations of homophobia, one of the “replies” was that PSH had been awarded for playing Truman Capote, who was gay! WTF???  Not only was there “no sex” (as many pointed out), but neither was there any homosexuality! Can someone actually explain to me in what ways Capote is a “gay-themed” movie? What are the gay themes? How are they presented and worked out? In what ways does the film relate to the lived experience of homosexuality?

[Redbrit]

...

But even more bewildering to me was the idea that Capote was a “gay” themed movie. When the failure to award Brokeback best picture Oscar elicited accusations of homophobia, one of the “replies” was that PSH had been awarded for playing Truman Capote, who was gay! WTF???  Not only was there “no sex” (as many pointed out), but neither was there any homosexuality! Can someone actually explain to me in what ways Capote is a “gay-themed” movie? What are the gay themes? How are they presented and worked out? In what ways does the film relate to the lived experience of homosexuality?

Ahh - but don't you see - it has a gay man in it so it must be gay-themed. After all, who in their right mind would put a gay man, of all things, in a film unless there was a suitable excuse? What were you thinking of?   

[hayek_uk]

I WAS over there in the eyelashes and I see this pic and I fall to pieces. It has never happened before! I thought the tears were gone.

Do they ever really go away?  I don't think they will.  Somebody will say something, or we will see something that reminds us of the Jack and Ennis.  Even in dreams, they'll come by. The tears are just the surface, waiting for the next time.

I haven't cried at work for weeks now. Seeing scenes can make me tear up, but thinking or writing about them was OK. The last time I saw the movie (5th) I was all right afterwards, and didn't even go down during the days following. So (almost disappointed) I thought I was "closing over" again, that the power of the ideas was waning in time, as surely they had to do.

Then I start writing on one of these threads about Ennis,in the story,saying he had realised -- too late -- that when he got sick, it meant that he should never have let Jack out of his sight -- that they should never have parted after the Brokeback Summer -- but now it was all too late. And I am a wreck. Off to empty conference rooms to cry my heart out. Unable to stop myself crying at my desk. Feeling dead and wretched and completely worn out, sitting unable to think of anything else - not even wanting to. Sad from one side of my soul to the other, for the pity, the waste, the terrible violent passion, the tenderness ... FUCK! FUCK!! FUCK!!!

[Redbrit]

Went to my first movie today since seeing Brokeback . Saw the shorts of "Proof" with Jake which had me reminiscing and perhaps it will be my next outing.  However the movie I did see  was "Fateless" a basically true story of a young Hungarian Jewish boy who went through the German Concentration camps. I have been to Auschwitz so also had me close to tears. But it was a reality check. Okay Brokeback reminds me that due largely to my fundamentalist upbringing my love life has been non-existent and I nearly always go to movies on my own and took myself to a concert last week for my 62nd birthday. But I have always lived in relative comfort with a worthwhile profession and a supportive family. I do not think I would have lasted through the horrors of the Holocaust. That young boy went onto win a Nobel prize for literature.

You're quite right that we need a sense of proportion. The Holocaust is a terrible reminder of how bad things can get. However, I still think BBM is a particularly important film. Have you watched Cabaret? The story of a period when being gay in the cities was relatively OK in a society that was being steadily torn apart. Less gay men died in the Holocaust either relatively or in absolute terms than Jews. For one thing, we hide more easily - what in most circumstances is a curse, in this particular situation became a life-saver. However, it didn't stop the Nazis trying. Of course, as the Nazis would have discovered had they achieved their aims, while you can exterminate an entire ethnos (the Caribs, the Tasmanians...), gay men will just keep coming back - it's our ultimate riposte to those who say we can't reproduce. There are two things I'm trying to say here. One is: compare like with like. The Holocaust was a dreadful time for all affected by it. The Jews were by some measures those who suffered worst - but the disabled, the mentally ill, gay men and lesbians, trade unionists, socialists, communists, Roma (aka Gipsies), Slavs - all suffered in various awful ways - indeed all of these groups were murdered in considerable numbers. In present day society things are much better for everyone. In fact, you'd probably have to say that out of that list the group now suffering worst are the Roma, living in dreadful poverty and amidst state tolerated (and probably sponsored) racism in eastern Europe and alternately neglected and abused as refugees in the West. The second and related thing is that the milder stiuation leads to the worse if something is not done about it. The left in 1930s Germany were too bitterly divided to effectively combat the rise of the Nazis. In the US today, there are forces ranged on both sides: liberal and radical reformers, gay activists etc. on the one hand and right-wing religious groups, neo-cons etc. on the other. There is nothing written in stone that says that gay rights must move forward rather than backward. There is likewise nothing written in stone that says that just because so many of us are horrified at the Holocaust that something similar or worse couldn't happen again. When Pastor Niemoeller wrote his famous lines about the Nazis coming first for the Jews, then the Communists, then the trade unions and by the time he did anything there was no-one left to speak out for him, I think many people tend to take this as words of repentence for a moral failing - and for the Pastor that may well have been the intention. For me, though, the significance of these words is political - act now to oppose the right or regret it later. In this sense the relatively small-scale oppression we face now - which let us not forget still causes murders and suicides in sufficient numbers - is a warning of what can be and that warning is as important as the remembrance of past attrocities.

[VICKI]

Brokeback Mountain left me with a lump in my chest for days afterwards.  It's a feeling I have been unable to shake, a kind of aching sadness every time I think about the film.  Every time I think of Ennis...so lonely...Jack...so lonely.
I cannot forget how this movie (and Annie Proulx's story) have made me feel.  It's like nothing I've ever experienced from a book or a film before because it just feels so real.
The following words are from 'Danny Boy' (from Eva Cassidy's album)

"And I will hear how soft your tread above me, and then my grave will more than sweeter be.  For you shall bend and tell me that you love me, and I will sleep in peace, until you come to me."

Although I still feel the same sadness, those words go some way to helping me, because I imagine that they are words for Ennis and Jack.  And its just a little bit of hope in a lonely story.

[madameshawshank]

have just checked a local family run cinema...from the 4 - 10 May...BROKEBACK will be screening...ahhhhhhhhh to see it yet again on the big screen...I'll drink in the wonder again...was listening to cinecast...feedback about bbm...one gay guy wrote that some of his friends..film fans...love film etc...are not seeing it...he feels hurt...

that's something that's struck me...how it could feel to be glbt and have 'friends' who refuse to see the film.....how easy it is to programme people...all those with fear/loathing/etc etc....and how many stop to think "Now why am I so afraid of this film?"

oh 'tis late in the night...thought I'd drop in to say "Hi" to you all...

am thinking of seeing it maybe 3 times in the one day....that's how I felt the first viewing...I thought "Just press 'play' again"..

isn't this the yummiest group of people...

hugssssssssss

[hayek_uk]

...

But even more bewildering to me was the idea that Capote was a “gay” themed movie. When the failure to award Brokeback best picture Oscar elicited accusations of homophobia, one of the “replies” was that PSH had been awarded for playing Truman Capote, who was gay! WTF???  Not only was there “no sex” (as many pointed out), but neither was there any homosexuality! Can someone actually explain to me in what ways Capote is a “gay-themed” movie? What are the gay themes? How are they presented and worked out? In what ways does the film relate to the lived experience of homosexuality?

Ahh - but don't you see - it has a gay man in it so it must be gay-themed. After all, who in their right mind would put a gay man, of all things, in a film unless there was a suitable excuse? What were you thinking of?   

Right *kicking himself* - of course. How could I have been so dense! And now I can see how everyone will be able to obtain uniquely valuable insights and have an unforgettably intense experience when they see the film. [but just one thing -- unless you already knew all about Capote and his life, how would you know from the film that he was gay? - unless, I suppose, you decided the following added up to being gay (not that I do...) an emotionally empty, self-obsessed moral coward, who shared his apartment with someone very similar (if better looking); who bored people witless with self-centred anecdotes; walked all swishy, and behaved inappropriately with decent people, drivelled about designer clothes; lived in New York... and exploited a young murderer who he might be attracted to (but more or less arbitrarily so) for literary reasons (equally arbitrarily conceived)...]

[alma]

I haven't cried at work for weeks now. Seeing scenes can make me tear up, but thinking or writing about them was OK. The last time I saw the movie (5th) I was all right afterwards, and didn't even go down during the days following. So (almost disappointed) I thought I was "closing over" again, that the power of the ideas was waning in time, as surely they had to do.

Then I start writing on one of these threads about Ennis,in the story,saying he had realised -- too late -- that when he got sick, it meant that he should never have let Jack out of his sight -- that they should never have parted after the Brokeback Summer -- but now it was all too late. And I am a wreck. Off to empty conference rooms to cry my heart out. Unable to stop myself crying at my desk. Feeling dead and wretched and completely worn out, sitting unable to think of anything else - not even wanting to. Sad from one side of my soul to the other, for the pity, the waste, the terrible violent passion, the tenderness ... FUCK! FUCK!! FUCK!!!

{{{{hayek_uk}}}}

::sending hugs and a mug of tea and my own tears::

This thread makes me all huggy and tender.

Ennis is the great cautionary tale, isn't he? We love him so much because we don't want to make his mistakes (mistakes we don't even mind forgiving because he is so endearingly wounded). Ennis is the risk taker when we look at him through the lens of his brokenness. It's just one big feat of courage to come out just enough to show that he loves Jack and wants to be loved. We love him... even as Jack loved him... for taking that chance.

And we love Jack for doing for us what we cannot do... he expands every time he should want to contract, he opens a way every time the door slams shut. Jack is the redeemer and even dies for love in the end... at least that's how it reads for me. All that needs doing, he does - he leaves nothing undone and is faithful to love. Then he squirrels away those bloody shirts in his private sanctuary, his place of memory, the icon of his heart.

Thank God Ennis finds those bloodied shirts! That moment is his epiphany, sacred love - his moment of liberation.

Of course we love him. And we cry for him. And for us.

[alma]

I explained to her that Brokeback Mountain isn't your typical gay romance flick.

After all that emotion in the last post, this comment just tickled my funny bone in all the right ways!

WTF is a "typical gay romance flick"? 

I can't wait until they exist in abundance and there are enough of them that we can say "just another typical gay romance"! Now that will be the day the heavens open and the trumpets blare and our two messiahs Jack and Ennis will shout Hallelujah!

[alma]

To Robert,who may never see this, I am sorry and all I can say is Robert...I swear.

 :-[ Tears again... good thing none of the kids are up yet.

Peace to you John.