How Brokeback affected me

[Erik]

Of course you r right.. what i said i just a part of it... i would also like to embrace the real people like them.. but where are they... Here? These are just words, not people...

[mcnell1120]

I want a group hug............(((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))

[BayCityJohn]

I think i know what's going on here as well: we all fell in love with Jack and/or Ennis. And the pain we feel is the pain we feel when we realize that we can never have them.

I find as time passes I don't so much want to reach through the screen to embrace Jack and Ennis - though I could happily embrace Jake and Heath as a thank you for their beautiful performances - but I want to reach out and embrace the real men and women who are going through this. It's not just me, is it?

No it's not just you. That's it for me too.


"And suddenly, so suddenly, there is God" - Tennessee Williams

[whiplash]

I'm with you all the way Redbrit... And although these may just be words...

There it was, word for word,
The poem that took the place of a mountain.

He breathed in its oxygen,
Even when the book lay turned in the dust of his table.

It reminded him how he had needed
A place to go to in his own direction,

How he had recomposed the pines,
Shifted the rocks and picked his way among clouds,

For the outlook that would be right,
Where he would be complete in an unexplained completion:

The exact rock where his inexactnesses
Would discover, at last, the view toward which they had edged,

Where he could lie and, gazing down at the sea,
Recognize his unique and solitary home.

-Wallace Stevens

Never underestimate the power of "just words"...

[IMJackNasty]

I listened to the BBM soundtrack on the way home from work, and once again I cried. I cried for one Jack Twist. Father who was as cold and distant as next winter. Mother, who beneath layers, understood her son, but fled to a certain religion for survival. Poor Jack, ahead of his time. Jack, the strength and the light. Jack, who was proud of one Ennis del Mar. Jack, who wanted to bring Ennis home and show his dad how proud he really was. Jack, despite his rearin', was willing to 'whip that ranch into shape'--that ranch of a lazy, worthless sombitch' that was his father. Jack, willing to forgive that father.

Jack Twist--the light. Jack Twist--he never hurt no one. Jack Twist, proud of himself for who he was.

What we need in this world is a whole bunch of Jack Twist's, and for it is he, who will whip this world into shape.

brad

Oh yes. It so affects me to think about Jack, a man who managed to triumph over the adversities of his upbringing, and conceive a love that never wavered.

Because he is not as emotionally “hard” as Ennis, never takes his fists to the world, and has a softer, gentler physical personality, Jack is sometimes spoken of as if he is less “masculine”. I don’t see that for a minute – quite apart from his rodeo riding, his masculinity is solid and firm (ENNIS: “I’ll stick with beans” JACK: “Well I won’t”). As an older man he preserves his dignity despite the put-downs of his father-in-law and the financial dominance of his wife, and asserts his concern for his son.

I get really emotional when I think of the times he shows such tender concern for Ennis. After the episode with the bear, when Ennis gets back to camp a gash down the side of his head, the look on Jack’s face in the firelight, and as he dips the cloth in the boiling water, always makes me cry -- in his expression one can read all the love he is beginning to feel for Ennis (indeed, this is the point where we see just how much Jack has come to care about Ennis, how he feels his hurt and longs to nurture him)…. and…When they’re wrestling, just before they leave the Mountain, and by accident Ennis takes a blow on his nose and bleeds. Jack immediately breaks out of the fighting mood and moves towards Ennis, full of concern, ready to tend him, saying “Ennis….” in a voice full of tender solicitude (and Ennis, hardly knowing why, punches him to the ground)…. and… At the end of their final meeting, all Jack’s frustrations and failures crowd into his mind and burst over Ennis. But when it is Ennis (this time) who falls to the ground, Jack rushes to support him and comfort him. “Ennis,” he says, caring only about the pain of the man he so loves, forgetting at once his own needs – (JACK: “Come here, it’s all right … it’s all right”)

I really adore Jack, and I so admire love Jake Gyllenhaal for making him the wonderful man he is.

Also, Jack was always the one who did all the traveling over the 20 years...to see Ennis. It wasn't until he lost Jack that Ennis realizes what he actually lost. Sometimes...you take things for granted.

It hit me last night during #14 during the final scene with Alma, Jr.....that Ennis realizes when he tells her that he has the roundup and sees her expression that he's tired of disappointing everyone in his life. He let down Jack...he let down Alam...he let down Cassie and he let down his children. That's why the "Jack I Swear" takes on a more poignant meaning....that if he had another chance....he would have taken the leap and been with jack.

[hayek_uk]

When you love someone, you care what happens to them. And if they get what they want, don't we all get a warm glow - even if it wasn't what we wanted? I think we hurt because they are denied what they want - we hurt for them, the more so because we feel powerless to help. Of course, it's only fiction - but the worst of it is that we always knew, even before we read so many personal stories on this forum and elsewhere, that though fiction this story is in many ways true - and current. I find as time passes I don't so much want to reach through the screen to embrace Jack and Ennis - though I could happily embrace Jake and Heath as a thank you for their beautiful performances - but I want to reach out and embrace the real men and women who are going through this.

Of course you r right.. what i said i just a part of it... i would also like to embrace the real people like them.. but where are they... Here? These are just words, not people...

Redbrit - that is exactly right, and very well put. Except that I agree with Erik at the end. We would all like to think there was something positive, that we could transfer the feelings for a worthwhile end.

I think these feelings about Jack and/or Ennis come from identification and transference (projection of our own feelings onto them). To recognise this and express it, however, leads to the agony we are discussing. The only way forward is to continue to look deeper and deeper into what we identify with; understand what [we sense] are the keys to Jack and Ennis's circumstances and responses; explore how we act in ways that make us unhappy and unfulfilled. Then we will be able to look at JAck and Ennis without entering their tragedy.

Of course, almost all of us are doing that. But perhaps few of us have yet done it without sadness or self-pity, or with the courage that might mean admitting things abou ourselves we don't want to admit.

[danac]

Oh yes. It so affects me to think about Jack, a man who managed to triumph over the adversities of his upbringing, and conceive a love that never wavered.

Because he is not as emotionally “hard” as Ennis, never takes his fists to the world, and has a softer, gentler physical personality, Jack is sometimes spoken of as if he is less “masculine”. I don’t see that for a minute – quite apart from his rodeo riding, his masculinity is solid and firm (ENNIS: “I’ll stick with beans” JACK: “Well I won’t”). As an older man he preserves his dignity despite the put-downs of his father-in-law and the financial dominance of his wife, and asserts his concern for his son.

I get really emotional when I think of the times he shows such tender concern for Ennis. After the episode with the bear, when Ennis gets back to camp a gash down the side of his head, the look on Jack’s face in the firelight, and as he dips the cloth in the boiling water, always makes me cry -- in his expression one can read all the love he is beginning to feel for Ennis (indeed, this is the point where we see just how much Jack has come to care about Ennis, how he feels his hurt and longs to nurture him)…. and…When they’re wrestling, just before they leave the Mountain, and by accident Ennis takes a blow on his nose and bleeds. Jack immediately breaks out of the fighting mood and moves towards Ennis, full of concern, ready to tend him, saying “Ennis….” in a voice full of tender solicitude (and Ennis, hardly knowing why, punches him to the ground)…. and… At the end of their final meeting, all Jack’s frustrations and failures crowd into his mind and burst over Ennis. But when it is Ennis (this time) who falls to the ground, Jack rushes to support him and comfort him. “Ennis,” he says, caring only about the pain of the man he so loves, forgetting at once his own needs – (JACK: “Come here, it’s all right … it’s all right”)

I really adore Jack, and I so admire love Jake Gyllenhaal for making him the wonderful man he is.


You just made me cry here...for Jack - for all the small,constant loving gestures over 20 years - and at the artistry with which Jake crafted the character of Jack; no amount of time and no matter how many viewings (11 in the theatre at this count) lessens the impact for me.

[danac]

Omigod...I just had this horrible thought: what if this obsession dies down, and Dave takes this site away..and all you guys are lost to me forever?
Honestly, I think I'd go mad - I've already crossed from fandom to obsession and I would surely go off the deep end if I didn't have this refuge!

[Poohbunn]

Help me, people...

I've been lurking at this site since January.  I've never seen BBM, though I have sooooo wanted to..  This is my story: I'm a 52 year old gay guy.  I've been with my partner for 25 years.  He's has clinical despression and cannot tolerate things that are very sad.  I knew we wouldn't be seeing BBM together in a movie theater.  I've gone many times myself to movies that he wasn't interested in or couldn't tolerate, so I figured I'd go myself.

John,  If you cry during the movie, you won't be alone.   Please see it in the theater if you can.  So much of the story is in the eyes of Jack and Ennis that it may not be as evident on the smaller screen.  Heck, some of us even cry about it when we aren't in the theater, like at our desks, in the shower or in bed at night.  We are all here to hold your hand.    --- Pooh

[Poohbunn]

Jack Twist--the light. Jack Twist--he never hurt no one. Jack Twist, proud of himself for who he was.

What we need in this world is a whole bunch of Jack Twist's, and for it is he, who will whip this world into shape.

brad

Now, I'm crying again.  We do need a world full of Jack Twist's.  His laughter lightens our hearts. I think of him pretending to ride the bull and falling over laughing. Heck, he didn't even spill the whiskey!  And that silly harmonica!  What I would give to hear it again, always...

[moonbeam]

Omigod...I just had this horrible thought: what if this obsession dies down, and Dave takes this site away..and all you guys are lost to me forever?
Honestly, I think I'd go mad - I've already crossed from fandom to obsession and I would surely go off the deep end if I didn't have this refuge!

omg... if this forum went away I would probably be sitting in my room having conversations with myself about different plot points, slowly going crazy! I think we need this forum for at least a year after the DVD release... there are going to be so many things we are going to need to talk about once the DVD is out... so... NOBODY leaves until I say so! ok, people? 

[Poohbunn]

Omigod...I just had this horrible thought: what if this obsession dies down, and Dave takes this site away..and all you guys are lost to me forever?
Honestly, I think I'd go mad - I've already crossed from fandom to obsession and I would surely go off the deep end if I didn't have this refuge!

Oh my G-d!!! I never even thought of that.  Banish the thought.  I would die.  I hope this site lasts as long as the memory of Jack and Ennis.  It should be like this, just like this, always.
-- Pooh

[DaveinPhilly]

Redbrit - that is exactly right, and very well put. Except that I agree with Erik at the end. We would all like to think there was something positive, that we could transfer the feelings for a worthwhile end.

I think these feelings about Jack and/or Ennis come from identification and transference (projection of our own feelings onto them). To recognise this and express it, however, leads to the agony we are discussing. The only way forward is to continue to look deeper and deeper into what we identify with; understand what [we sense] are the keys to Jack and Ennis's circumstances and responses; explore how we act in ways that make us unhappy and unfulfilled. Then we will be able to look at JAck and Ennis without entering their tragedy.

Of course, almost all of us are doing that. But perhaps few of us have yet done it without sadness or self-pity, or with the courage that might mean admitting things abou ourselves we don't want to admit.

Absolutely right hayek_uk, otherwise the BBM experience is a worthless plunge into self pity leaving us where society as a whole wishes we would remain.

DaveinPhilly

[danac]

Right, Pooh, let's all commit to pledging dollars or whatever it takes so it IS "just like this - always."

[mcnell1120]

Omigod...I just had this horrible thought: what if this obsession dies down, and Dave takes this site away..and all you guys are lost to me forever?
Honestly, I think I'd go mad - I've already crossed from fandom to obsession and I would surely go off the deep end if I didn't have this refuge!

Oh my G-d!!! I never even thought of that. Banish the thought. I would die. I hope this site lasts as long as the memory of Jack and Ennis. It should be like this, just like this, always.
-- Pooh

Well....with that said...we better get each others e-mails and phone#'s then..........