How Brokeback affected me

[Ironwood]

I would really like to discuss the ideas of redbrit and ironwood, but I have to get this off my chest first.

Has any of you noticed becoming more vulnerable to happiness? Or more aware of it? Today I was commuting home and I saw a young couple who looked at each other misty eyed and so full of love and tenderness that it almost brought tears into my eyes. Then it struck me: a month ago I wouldn't have even recognized them or I would have said silently to myself: "Enjoy it while it lasts but it will not be long". Am I losing some of my cynicism, my urban indifference. Am I becoming Pollyannish?

Will I be able to see love in others, even ability to love in others? Even appreciate and cherish that ability in others?

What is happening to me?

My sentiments almost exactly...I think BBM has raised a level of awareness in a lot of us...awareness of how fortunate we might be and a willingness to suspend a critical attitude because (possibly) of an enhanced value added to the little moments of life.....Nothing wrong with shedding some cynicism.  I posted, I think in another thread, some comments about how BBM has increased the intimacy in my own 10 year relationship...it might just be a temporary thing...but I like it and hope we can build on it.

[Ironwood]

Too good not to repost here - this is from Redbritt on another thread and might not specificly belong here but....- It's so well stated...nothing unclear here!  You go Red!

"Alma - I know you're on the right side in all this, but I'm disappointed and alarmed by the nature of some of the arguments you've put forward here. In response to your query on murders of gay men, here are two points. Firstly a quote from Stonewall (British gay campaigning organisation) from a survey conducted in 1996:

34% of men responding and 23% of women responding had experienced violence because they were gay, lesbian or bisexual. 18% of male respondents, and 10% of female respondents, had been "hit, punched or kicked". 10% of male respondents, and 4% of female respondents, had been "beaten up". 5% of men, and 2% of women, had been "assaulted with a weapon".

On the 'name the names' argument you're putting forward - what are you arguing here: that it doesn't happen? that the claim is only credible if you have specific court reports in front of you to 'prove' it? There are many ugly examples of people currently at work in history departments and the media who try to deny the scale of suffering of various groups by quibbling over figures. I can name you their names if you like, but I don't think you'd like to find yourself associated with them.

Similarly your argument on gay catholics. Think about Brokeback Mountain again. There was no physical reason why Jack and Ennis couldn't be together, it was entirely ideological. Similarly, religion is a fantastically important part of many people's lives - either as their own belief or, at least, as a force shaping their entire environment, their family, their community etc. Yes - it is possible to be gay and cease to be catholic (for example) but it's not like changing clothes. There's a lot involved and many people find it impossible to make a choice of that kind. The key point is: why should they? Gay catholics aren't the only ones with choices. The pope has choices too and this one is making bad ones. We have every right to call him to account for it.

Your last argument about the supposed ideological sophistication of Republicans is just too juicy a target to miss. George Bush? Hello! There are certainly some very bright people associated with the Neocon project who do what they do for reasons of self-interest, but what the original poster actually said was that the people who followed them were the ones being fooled, and in that they are surely right. Also, just because an argument is complex and (in a certain sense) clever doesn't make it right or even rational. And the Nazi slogans that got them into power were anything but sophisticated - 6,000,000 unemployed, 6,000,000 Jews the solution is obvious. Not exactly Machiavelli.

Your main point was that Ned was showing prejudice (!) in his arguments. I think the real problem is that you are finding it difficult to accept the scale of the problem and wish to deny it. While that may be understandable from an emotional point of view, the practical consequence is that you end up tacitly supporting arguments that the moral right put forward: gays overstate their suffering; if you don't like it here (in the catholic church, in this area etc.), go elsewhere. And you give too much credit to the moral right - they don't just 'OPPOSE' - they brutalise, defame and abuse. I am prepared to bet large sums of money that most of those on the right who do understand the issues don't believe their arguments about gay rights any more than the average gay rights activist. Those who don't understand the arguments are acting exactly as Ned said - out of ignorance and fear. There really are no depths to which people like this will not sink and I won't dignify them by praising the sophistication of their arguments or pretend that they are just a group of harmless cranks.

I'm sorry if that seems like a rant - but you really hit a nerve there. Especially after all the excellent things that people have come out with about their experiences and being pro gay rights. Could you just try to reflect a little and maybe see that Ned wasn't the one who prejudged things?"

[Eniese]

I would really like to discuss the ideas of redbrit and ironwood, but I have to get this off my chest first.

Has any of you noticed becoming more vulnerable to happiness? Or more aware of it? Today I was commuting home and I saw a young couple who looked at each other misty eyed and so full of love and tenderness that it almost brought tears into my eyes. Then it struck me: a month ago I wouldn't have even recognized them or I would have said silently to myself: "Enjoy it while it lasts but it will not be long". Am I losing some of my cynicism, my urban indifference. Am I becoming Pollyannish?

Will I be able to see love in others, even ability to love in others? Even appreciate and cherish that ability in others?

What is happening to me?

My sentiments almost exactly...I think BBM has raised a level of awareness in a lot of us...awareness of how fortunate we might be and a willingness to suspend a critical attitude because (possibly) of an enhanced value added to the little moments of life.....Nothing wrong with shedding some cynicism.  I posted, I think in another thread, some comments about how BBM has increased the intimacy in my own 10 year relationship...it might just be a temporary thing...but I like it and hope we can build on it.

Thats the best thing a movie or story can do for peoples lifes. Not only change the way they think about the world but also change the way they behave. Knowing some about advertisement psychology I know that it is one of the most difficult things to change the behaviour of a target group. You need to connect with the audience on an emotional level and Brokeback Mountain did so much more than that...

I often think of how BBM must affect young boys in the United States which find out about feeling in a homosexual way and being very insecure and scared about it and then seing this movie. I think it will do more good things to the world than we here will ever know.

[Mo/sagha]

WTG02 Your essay ( #3186 on: February 28, 2006, p,213) was terrific. I am a gerbil on one of those circular treadmills; it keeps spinning, propelling me forward; it is so hard to get off & go back. Last night I spent an hour+ looking for a past post I needed and gave up in frustration. I want to tell you how satisfying I found your essay. It was so well articulated & concisely & well written. Yours will be the first one I have saved (I know, big deal & so what.) I hope you will write a Part 4.

I do not share, though. your faith in the process of coming out as a liberating and socially efficacious means to effect change in the status of gays, their legal rights and reduction of harm to them that is occuring in massive ways on a massive scale. Coming out can be personally gratifying and force our loved ones and friends to rethink the inculcated bias, fear and hate of homosexuals we all share in differing degrees. It also incrementally effects social change, I grant you, as we have seen over the last 50 years. But that is retail change, because we must acknowledge that every and all gay men live in the closet, never fully leaving it, going in & out many times a day. 7 times 70 a day. Even declaring openly our homosexuality does not stop us from using the conveince and claustraphobia of the closet. We need wholesale change that can only occur by political change.

As the process of coming out is necessarily an essentially personal move (& necessary in my life too) I fear it is a mistake to place such emphasis on it as an efficacious agent of institutional change. Because it is essentially such a private matter, I believe it reinforces the beliefs of many (& certainly seen in the majority of posts in this forum) that it is a substitution for the much harder political work that must be done if we are to change the present persecution of minorities and the transformation of our culture. Coming out will be the periphial but naturally continuing process anyway, as gays raise their visibility.

As enlightening, cogent and insightful  your essay was, it left the reader with no signposts, no direction, no path to take that might assist us to reach the mountain top as Martin Luther King said. It lacked what we most need and that is how are we to most effectively involve ourselves in the necessary grassroots organizing to effect real political change. What are we to do? Too many people here for instance think it is more important to their personal life--their emotional, spiritual, social, & economic well being--to get a relic of Jack Gyllenhall than to join their town or neighborhood's local Democratic Party Commitee to do the necessary hard retail work to effect wholesale real political change. That will change their personal lives.

The Republicand are sure as shit not going to advance progressive policies that will change the legal rights of gays--just the opposite, they will continue to use homosexuality to gain electoral  advantage to block, prevent and retard the human and civil rights of gays. We know that, even if some gays huddle in some log cabin and yak about changing the ideology of the right from the inside, rather than joining and helping gays, minorities and our allies throw out these oppressive thugs that encourge and use hatred, intolerance, violence and discrimination to  harm us.

I daresay the majority of people even here--for the most part progressive, enlightened, educated, good men and women--do not know when and where their local Democratic Committe meets to be able to join their neighbors and challenging them to move more forcefully and effectively in the camp of gay supporters. An this is an aware group. I am afraid that the belief that coming out is the most important, efficient political action that can be taken only reinforces the kind of alienated, disaffected, apolitical individualism that keeps us from changing the conditions of our lives.

I want to thank your so very much for your wonderful essay, I feel privileged to have had the chance of reading it. I hope you lose your virginity and come back to expose youself in more posts on this forum.  --sagha

[Jaysmommy]

I would really like to discuss the ideas of redbrit and ironwood, but I have to get this off my chest first.

Has any of you noticed becoming more vulnerable to happiness? Or more aware of it? Today I was commuting home and I saw a young couple who looked at each other misty eyed and so full of love and tenderness that it almost brought tears into my eyes. Then it struck me: a month ago I wouldn't have even recognized them or I would have said silently to myself: "Enjoy it while it lasts but it will not be long". Am I losing some of my cynicism, my urban indifference. Am I becoming Pollyannish?

Will I be able to see love in others, even ability to love in others? Even appreciate and cherish that ability in others?

What is happening to me?

Boris, you are healing, you have reached the next level of this journey.....I've been feeling the same way for about a week now....it's a relief and it's also strangely sad to know that the grieving process is flowing on its natural course toward adjusting to life after Brokeback. There are times I don't want to let go of the sorrow, I don't want to lose this depth of emotion. But this is what is supposed to happen. Everyone copes with grief and loss in their own way and time, but eventually we come out the other side having incorporated the loss into our daily living. We are never the same....but we go on.

This trip isn't over yet....as we make our way down the mountain and back to our new reality, we will stop often along the way to remember the love that Ennis and Jack shared, to mourn its tragic end, to cry, to wish it could've ended differently, to dream of what might have been.

And all of us here will continue to rejoice that we have found each other, and to be forever grateful that the creators of this forum had the foresight to build us a safe haven in which to share our experience, and help each other find resolution.

Peace to you, friend.
T

[Poohbunn]

>I hope someone out there reads this and knows that there are some of us who really feel pain >because of our affiliation with those who cause pain to people in gay relationships.

I really don't think the Church is a mecca for gays.  Clergy and religious are supposed to be celibate so orientation should be meaningless.

I am so happy to have found other people who feel the way I do. Perhaps over time, we can change things from within.

Debu

[paintedshoes]

Boris, Jaysmommy, you are both so right about the "happiness effect"  of "Brokeback Mountain".  I have spoken to more than one person here on the forum about this very thing.  J, this place is a "safe haven" where, to one extent or another, everyone has been able to sort out their feelings and use them to chart a new course for their lives.  Because we CHOOSE to make that transition.  We, as human beings want to "become more vulnerable to happiness".  Jack wanted that.  Ennis didn't know how to define it, let alone achieve it.  But we, after having accepted this miracle which is "Brokeback", may now allow ourselves the right to seek and perhaps find that happiness which eluded them.  Jack and Ennis are powerful teachers.  We at this forum are learning their lesson.

My love and wish for happiness to both of you and to all my brothers and sisters in this family,
Jackie

[Eniese]

Boris, Jaysmommy, you are both so right about the "happiness effect"  of "Brokeback Mountain".  I have spoken to more than one person here on the forum about this very thing.  J, this place is a "safe haven" where, to one extent or another, everyone has been able to sort out their feelings and use them to chart a new course for their lives.  Because we CHOOSE to make that transition.  We, as human beings want to "become more vulnerable to happiness".  Jack wanted that.  Ennis didn't know how to define it, let alone achieve it.  But we, after having accepted this miracle which is "Brokeback", may now allow ourselves the right to seek and perhaps find that happiness which eluded them.  Jack and Ennis are powerful teachers.  We at this forum are learning their lesson.

My love and wish for happiness to both of you and to all my brothers and sisters in this family,
Jackie

And thats maybe the most important lesson in life.Thats why so many people are so crazy about it- they feel that its something essentiel that they´ve been missing. I totally agree with you on this.

[madameshawshank]

I have goose bumps all over...after reading these posts...the miracle of Brokeback...indeed it is....this is powerful energy...I think of all those who were drawn to make this film...the miracle of Annie's story...how from those few pages...the book is on my bedside table...those few pages have grown into such a tree...so tall that the world can see it...so tall that all who wish to sit under it awhile can...those who wish to climb it...can...take soul photos..can...this film...this tale...this miracle of Brokeback...momentous...

Ang's imagination...linked to that of Annie's and all....that Heath and Jake were courageous to take it on...and gift us with their unbelievable ability to BE those men...acting at the cutting edge...

come on Saturday...seeing it again..the sheer wonder of sitting knowing...yet...at the same time...all the minute details there to be explored..and discovered...

ah...this forum....the miracle of this forum.

[Lansdowne11]

Boris, Jaysmommy, you are both so right about the "happiness effect"  of "Brokeback Mountain".  I have spoken to more than one person here on the forum about this very thing.  J, this place is a "safe haven" where, to one extent or another, everyone has been able to sort out their feelings and use them to chart a new course for their lives.  Because we CHOOSE to make that transition.  We, as human beings want to "become more vulnerable to happiness".  Jack wanted that.  Ennis didn't know how to define it, let alone achieve it.  But we, after having accepted this miracle which is "Brokeback", may now allow ourselves the right to seek and perhaps find that happiness which eluded them.  Jack and Ennis are powerful teachers.  We at this forum are learning their lesson.

My love and wish for happiness to both of you and to all my brothers and sisters in this family,
Jackie

And thats maybe the most important lesson in life.Thats why so many people are so crazy about it- they feel that its something essentiel that they´ve been missing. I totally agree with you on this.

Agreed... and boy is this movie a powerful teaching tool. I can just see this movie becoming a standard for decades to come. The universality of its message. When we look at the diverse group of people who visit this site and share their lives, we see evidence of the power. The fact that I am still feeling the energy of BBM a week after last seeing it proves the power. An image online or on tv, and I'm back on the mountain. I hear the music and the feelings fill me. There have been movies that have moved me, but this great piece of art has really transformed me. I know it has done so for so many others just from what I read here.

I am so happy to see people still writing and sharing. Thanks again. I don't keep up with this as often as many of you and I haven't developed the rapport many of you share with each other (I'm a bit Ennis in that regard), but I love reading your words. BBM has made me more open in my daily life. I was talking to a friend about my feelings in relation to the movie, and he said, "That's more than you've said in ten years." - a little twist on Jack's comment to Ennis.

[madameshawshank]

somehow or other this film has become a key to our souls as it were...in some cases it seems to be THE key to souls...hope along the way all those..from Annie on...come to realise they have created a gem...that has shone so brightly over these past few months...and continues to burn as brightly as ever...such a mix of people...all connected by the mountain story...amazing...and a joy to be a part of...

hugs hugs hugs to all of you..

[Garry_LH]

Boris, welcome to what I have been discovering the last couple of days.  Which as strange as the world has been the last year, being able to recognize other's love, is a dang happy development. If like me, wait till you discover that deep inside what is happing is an awareness  and appreciation of the love you find you have for yourself. It's not a bit unlike that feeling of being reborn to a new level of spiritual awareness.
Garry

I would really like to discuss the ideas of redbrit and ironwood, but I have to get this off my chest first.

Has any of you noticed becoming more vulnerable to happiness? Or more aware of it? Today I was commuting home and I saw a young couple who looked at each other misty eyed and so full of love and tenderness that it almost brought tears into my eyes. Then it struck me: a month ago I wouldn't have even recognized them or I would have said silently to myself: "Enjoy it while it lasts but it will not be long". Am I losing some of my cynicism, my urban indifference. Am I becoming Pollyannish?

Will I be able to see love in others, even ability to love in others? Even appreciate and cherish that ability in others?

What is happening to me?

[Philo]

With some hindsight, I can see that I understood the impact and felt hugely saddened and lonely, but could not put my finger on why. I can now partially understand - I was feeling the sorrow for every gay man or women across time and circumstance.

Bill,
The line I've bolded is exactly what I'm feeling and haven't been able to put in words.  Thank you.  With all the other posts here, it brings to mind Mother Jones' statement: "Pray for the dead and fight like hell for the living."  Or, to paraphrase for our Brokeback situation, maybe "Mourn the lost possibilities, and fight like hell that no one should ever suffer like that again...."

[DFWRichNYC]

Hey everybody! as you can see, I'm expanding the group picture and there's still lots of white space. If you want to be in it, post your picture on the Members thread or drop me a line to say it's ok if I use your avatar.



Goodlooking group!

[Changedforever]

Um, hello to all. This is my first post here and I'm extremely worried that I'll hit the wrong button and send the forum into meltdown. I'm so un-techy and nervous, but the fact that I'm braving the world of the web at all should give you some idea of what this film has meant, and continues to mean, to me.
I'm in my mid-40s, a straight woman in a long and happy marriage who has been extremely fortunate in life. But this film has spoken to me in a way I'm yet to fully understand.
I've seen it three times and have been devastated by it every time. The best analogy I can come up with is it's like being sucked through a wormhole and re-materailised on the other side ... pretty much the same as before but with the molecules in different places. I'm me but I'm different. This film has changed me. And it's changed me for the better. I hope I'm more tolerant, more forgiving, more willing to live for today because today is really all we have.
It haunts me, it compels me, it moves me and I've turned into something of an evangelist for it. I've cajoled, persuaded (read threatened) colleagues to go and see it; I've lauded Heath and Jake to the rooftops and I had people coming up to me in the office commenting on Jake's richly-deserved Bafta win because they know I adore this film. Yes, it's true. I'm a Brokeaholic and I'm sure there is no cure for me.
The morning after the first time I saw this film, I went out and bought a small bunch of yellow freesias and roses. Yellow for faithfulness, freesias because they bloom for only a short time but are so wonderful and roses for love. As I put them in the vase I turned to me husband and said "They're for Jack and Ennis". He didn't laugh. He nodded and kissed me.
I could go on for hours but I won't.
I'm amazed, am humbled by and adore Brokeback Mountain. And I just wanted to say so

Sandra