How Brokeback affected me

[mcnell1120]

I recently received my Master's degree in Theology from a Catholic College. It is no secret that the Church frowns upon gay relationships.  Though I try to live by the teachings of the Church, I never could wrap my head around the idea that a person could control who they fall in love with.  Seeing this movie (twice in one week) solidified my conviction that I have to work hard to eliminate what seems like a prejudice.  The disharmony within my spiritual self has left me in tears for two weeks now. 

I hope someone out there reads this and knows that there are some of us who really feel pain because of our affiliation with those who cause pain to people in gay relationships.  People are people, love is love, and there's nothing we can do about it except to warmly embrace each other.

Debi

Sister your voice is beautiful. Thanks for telling your story. You rightly point out that each individual cannot be held responsible for the wrong mindedness of a religious organization. It's the heart of the matter that is important. Reaching out your loving heart is a way of healing those wounds.
DaveinPhilly

Debi,

You don't know how glad I am to hear those words...Felt this way all my life. Studied all types of religions in school and it always fascinates me how there are so many ways of how to live your life. When the bottom line is so generic to me. JUST LIVE AND LOVE......how difficult is that? My goal in life is to try to touch one person at a time,try to convince these people,the younger generation especially. It kills me when I speak to a priest and he tells me it's not a sin to be a homosexual..what makes it a sin is the sex !! I look at him and say "Do you really know what type of SEX these heterosexuals have?"...my GOd,I thought I was going to be struck down...of course he couldn't give me an explanation......I wasn't hatched from an egg yesterday you know...I love messing with their minds.

[Jaysmommy]

I recently received my Master's degree in Theology from a Catholic College. It is no secret that the Church frowns upon gay relationships.  Though I try to live by the teachings of the Church, I never could wrap my head around the idea that a person could control who they fall in love with.  Seeing this movie (twice in one week) solidified my conviction that I have to work hard to eliminate what seems like a prejudice.  The disharmony within my spiritual self has left me in tears for two weeks now. 

I hope someone out there reads this and knows that there are some of us who really feel pain because of our affiliation with those who cause pain to people in gay relationships.  People are people, love is love, and there's nothing we can do about it except to warmly embrace each other.

Debi

Sister your voice is beautiful. Thanks for telling your story. You rightly point out that each individual cannot be held responsible for the wrong mindedness of a religious organization. It's the heart of the matter that is important. Reaching out your loving heart is a way of healing those wounds.
DaveinPhilly

Debi,

You don't know how glad I am to hear those words...Felt this way all my life. Studied all types of religions in school and it always fascinates me how there are so many ways of how to live your life. When the bottom line is so generic to me. JUST LIVE AND LOVE......how difficult is that? My goal in life is to try to touch one person at a time,try to convince these people,the younger generation especially. It kills me when I speak to a priest and he tells me it's not a sin to be a homosexual..what makes it a sin is the sex !! I look at him and say "Do you really know what type of SEX these heterosexuals have?"...my GOd,I thought I was going to be struck down...of course he couldn't give me an explanation......I wasn't hatched from an egg yesterday you know...I love messing with their minds.

Once upon a time, the state I live in, MN, was considered progressive and liberal. But in the last 6 years there has been a shift...now the State Legislature is once again considering adding a marriage amendment to the State Constitution, as in an Anti-Gay Marriage. I used to think this would be a good place to raise my son....now I'm thinking about moving.....fucking extremist conservativism!

[mcnell1120]

I recently received my Master's degree in Theology from a Catholic College. It is no secret that the Church frowns upon gay relationships.  Though I try to live by the teachings of the Church, I never could wrap my head around the idea that a person could control who they fall in love with.  Seeing this movie (twice in one week) solidified my conviction that I have to work hard to eliminate what seems like a prejudice.  The disharmony within my spiritual self has left me in tears for two weeks now. 

I hope someone out there reads this and knows that there are some of us who really feel pain because of our affiliation with those who cause pain to people in gay relationships.  People are people, love is love, and there's nothing we can do about it except to warmly embrace each other.

Debi

Sister your voice is beautiful. Thanks for telling your story. You rightly point out that each individual cannot be held responsible for the wrong mindedness of a religious organization. It's the heart of the matter that is important. Reaching out your loving heart is a way of healing those wounds.
DaveinPhilly

Debi,

You don't know how glad I am to hear those words...Felt this way all my life. Studied all types of religions in school and it always fascinates me how there are so many ways of how to live your life. When the bottom line is so generic to me. JUST LIVE AND LOVE......how difficult is that? My goal in life is to try to touch one person at a time,try to convince these people,the younger generation especially. It kills me when I speak to a priest and he tells me it's not a sin to be a homosexual..what makes it a sin is the sex !! I look at him and say "Do you really know what type of SEX these heterosexuals have?"...my God,I thought I was going to be struck down...of course he couldn't give me an explanation......I wasn't hatched from an egg yesterday you know...I love messing with their minds.

Once upon a time, the state I live in, MN, was considered progressive and liberal. But in the last 6 years there has been a shift...now the State Legislature is once again considering adding a marriage amendment to the State Constitution, as in an Anti-Gay Marriage. I used to think this would be a good place to raise my son....now I'm thinking about moving.....fucking extremist conservativism!

The way I see it too is this.....for the sake of getting married because of LEGAL issues. For example,adopting a child together,buying a house together,sharing your medical insurance together....okay,grant it you can't go to the church for their blessing,so the Roman Catholic priest doesn't want to marry you...so say they can't do it that way.Then let them get married in the court system,by a judge. Let them share all the other things that we heterosexuals can have!!!!   Did I make any sense? Just acknowledge that they're a couple.......for Christs sakes. Why are they so goddamn worried that God will not allow this?  How the hell do you know? Did God actually come down and tell you this himself?.....................I guess there is a seperate thread on this conversation....sorry....this is just affecting me,because I hurt too. Hurt for them.

[Mo/sagha]

O fuck! As I lay in bed last night, sleep as close as Dill, my tiny little dog who always, without fail comes over to my face and kisses me, waits for mine in turn before going under the covers to sleep for the night, leaning against me, usually upside down against my belly, my little darling, the large world spinning around, teeming with creatures just like us. It could not be like this forever, we shall leave, perhaps without getting the chance to say good-bye.  I was thinking that maybe its time to say good-bye to this forum; to thank everybody for your smarts, your searing honesty, your insights, your compassion, esp for the kindness shown here; for the search for truth and meaning in your own lives that this extraordinairy masterpiiece has elicited. Not only in our own lives, but also confirmed in people we know and love, in all the people here.

I thought that it is taking just too much time and at the same time I feel that I am falling farther behind. I can't keep up with the speed of posts; compelling posts that call to me to respond with the focused attention and empathy their stories compel and deserve, that it is unfair to shortchange so many individuals who come into this forum, many overcoming enormous trepidation, confusiion, sadness and, sure, necessity to tell their stories they cannot help from telling; so often crying out from seeing this film that it is their own life. Through their tears, they are profoundly shaken by what they find to be so tragic about themselves, their losses, their decisions or fate that has brought them to where they found themselves before walking in to see BBM (or readit of course.). Not only can I not keep up with the posts, but even more so with the personal, off-line conversations that have been always interesting, often trenchent & almost always generous and which I am also far behind. I don't go back over posts now to clean them up. And still more pages fly by, while still more chores are waiting.

As many here know my first post here generated no little tizzy with some persons objecting to it as insincere and "frilly, and literary," or cruel and entirely unsympathetic; not told, I suppose, with the discursive extemporaneity of stories posted here that usually are not gone over, but told unmeadiated by editing. But I'm slow. I ended tthat first post with allusion to images from BBM and metaphor how BBM was my life, my story.  Evidently it was not artless. For the next several days objection was repeatedly voiced, but people began to write me offline & on that very first day either their apology for tenor of posts or their encouragement or empathy for my post. I felt so very welcomed & understood this forum had space for a diversity of types as numerous as the large crowd here and with an astonishing generousity of spirit. But for myself now the speed and extent of posts are becoming overwhelming; reciprocation has become sorely lacking, while it has also eaten away whole days.

So last night falling asleepI thought I was not going to come to this forum today, but take time off, before taking the decision to leave and say good-bye and express many thanks to all of you. When I woke, I turned on the pc to accompany my coffee and take a quick glance at messages; I began reading. I started reading WTG02 and I am grabbed by the lapels, sucked in by the kaliedeoscope of his insight, his cogent remarks. I must respond. Suck and fuck, WTG02.
            --sagha

[mcnell1120]

O fuck! As I lay in bed last night, sleep as close as Dill, my tiny little dog who always, without fail comes over to my face and kisses me, waits for mine in turn before going under the covers to sleep for the night, leaning against me, usually upside down against my belly, my little darling, the large world spinning around, teeming with creatures just like us. It could not be like this forever, we shall leave, perhaps without getting the chance to say good-bye. I was thinking that maybe its time to say good-bye to this forum; to thank everybody for your smarts, your searing honesty, your insights, your compassion, esp for the kindness shown here; for the search for truth and meaning in your own lives that this extraordinairy masterpiiece has elicited. Not only in our own lives, but also confirmed in people we know and love, in all the people here.


As many here know my first post here generated no little tizzy with some persons objecting to it as insincere and "frilly, and literary," or cruel and entirely unsympathetic; not told, I suppose, with the discursive extemporaneity of stories posted here that usually are not gone over, but told unmeadiated by editing. But I'm slow. I ended tthat first post with allusion to images from BBM and metaphor how BBM was my life, my story. Evidently it was not artless. For the next several days objection was repeatedly voiced, but people began to write me offline & on that very first day either their apology for tenor of posts or their encouragement or empathy for my post. I felt so very welcomed & understood this forum had space for a diversity of types as numerous as the large crowd here and with an astonishing generousity of spirit. But for myself now the speed and extent of posts are becoming overwhelming; reciprocation has become sorely lacking, while it has also eaten away whole days.

So last night falling asleepI thought I was not going to come to this forum today, but take time off, before taking the decision to leave and say good-bye and express many thanks to all of you. When I woke, I turned on the pc to accompany my coffee and take a quick glance at messages; I began reading. I started reading WTG02 and I am grabbed by the lapels, sucked in by the kaliedeoscope of his insight, his cogent remarks. I must respond. Suck and fuck, WTG02.
 --sagha

WOW.............the only thing I'm going to say is this:  NO....you can't stop now. You only posted 2x....give it some time. We all went thru the same crap....trust me on this....

[Mo/sagha]

WOW.............the only thing I'm going to say is this:  NO....you can't stop now. You only posted 2x....give it some time. We all went thru the same crap....trust me on this....

Sorry McNell1120
Because of pc problems, I have to use different pc today, but Mo is sagha is Michael O. Yes, there are many posts to reply to.  --sagha

[GazDU]

I guess we're a bit behind Downunder as the impact of this movie has really only taken hold recently.

I am deeply deeply emotional at the moment and have been for the past three weeks since seeing this amazingly beautiful movie. The story, the actors, the scenery and the music are completely breathtaking and  have now taken residence in my soul.

I feel as though I have had my heart and soul grabbed from inside me and squeezed. The pain, sadness, despair, anguish, loneliness and regret  I feel is so overpowering me I don't know how to handle this eruption of feelings.

Immediately after seeing the movie with a friend I began to feel a little shellshocked, as I  sometimes feel at movies, I thought not too much about it. I dropped my friend home then it hit me harder once home, my emotions were bubbling away but I didn't think any more of it again. The next day I was about to come to the biggest crossroad of my life. The journey I was about to take would be so powerful I would never have imagined I would have the strength to travel it.

I have been in the closet up till now, I have never had a relationship with a a man or a women, just a couple of short unsatisfactory flings, I have never been loved in an intimate relationship. I have been living a lie to most people in my life and have never really accepted my sexuality, basically I have kept me emotions locked away where they couldn't hurt me.

The morning of the day after seeing BBM I started sobbing, (very rare for me). By afternoon I was becoming distraught. I had a volcano of emotion inside me which was erupting, I was scared. By evening I was a mess, agitated and full of grief and not knowing where to turn. Why were these emotions bubbling to the surface when I have been able to hold them in for so long?

I was so desperate to express my feelings. After a few attempts and several hang ups I called a gay counselling service. The guy on the end of the line heard my unleashing of emotion, my sobbing, my grief, my sadness and my fears. I didn't understand what I was going through, why was I losing control? After 2 hours talking I had calmed down to a degree. The next day I woke with the same overwhelming emotions again, I was going crazy, I thought I was losing my mind.

I wasn't losing my mind, I was waking up from a deep sleep, I was leaving a dark, souless place devoid of emotion or love. BBM had stirred my soul so much that I found a strength, I found enough strength to first come out to good friend, then my sister, then my mother all of whom were very accepting and supportive and loving, and I will continue to come out because I can no longer live a lie.

I have learned that I am a creation of a higher power and I wasn't put on this Earth to feel dirty or negative about myself, I was put on this earth to share my love, to be honest with myself and others who share my life. I now know I have so much love to give, so much to catch up on and so much to share, my life will now be so much richer.

I have been born again, thank you BBM.

Note: I would really love for all involved in the production of this brave movie to somehow read the contents of this discussion, so many lives have been touched profoundly and will forever be changed. I want them to know the deep, deep appreciation and gratitude I feel along with so many others. I owe my life to BBM.

[bradINblue]

I have learned that I am a creation of a higher power and I wasn't put on this Earth to feel dirty or negative about myself, I was put on this earth to share my love, to be honest with myself and others who share my life. I now know I have so much love to give, so much to catch up on and so much to share, my life will now be so much richer.

you got it man......

brad

[DaveinPhilly]

I have learned that I am a creation of a higher power and I wasn't put on this Earth to feel dirty or negative about myself, I was put on this earth to share my love, to be honest with myself and others who share my life. I now know I have so much love to give, so much to catch up on and so much to share, my life will now be so much richer.

you got it man......

brad

Amen brother! and GazDu thanks for your post it's beautiful and speaks to so many of our common experiences.
DaveinPhilly

[Jaysmommy]

I wasn't losing my mind, I was waking up from a deep sleep, I was leaving a dark, souless place devoid of emotion or love. BBM had stirred my soul so much that I found a strength, I found enough strength to first come out to good friend, then my sister, then my mother all of whom were very accepting and supportive and loving, and I will continue to come out because I can no longer live a lie.


I have been born again, thank you BBM.

Gazdu, your story is the greatest compliment that can be paid to BBM and all involved in its creation.
I am so moved, so filled with joy for you and your new-found strength and determination. Your life can only get better now, you have crossed the threshhold to truth.....may all good things come your way...

I hope that your story will be read by many of the gay men here who are struggling so desperately, that it will inspire them and give them the courage to take the necessary steps toward peace of mind and heart.

Good Luck to you and please keep us posted on your journey.....

[madameshawshank]

two second visit!...one of those busy busy days....time to read quickly...and these posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

imagining what will be written in years to come about BBM ...how this little "indie film" as Roberta Maxwell thought of it...has reached so many in such an intense way...

Gadzu...one of the ...I can't find the adjective I'm looking for...but what ever it is it includes the Milky Way in wonderfulness....anyhow adjective things about BBM and this forum is that we are joyously coming across such stories as yours..

they bowl me over with hope and love....

may we continue to read more and more andmore....


and something I've been thinking about for a while....would not a percentage of those men who don't want to see it...be themselves Ennises or Jacks...unable or unwilling to visit their mountain...all those shirts put somewhere...'n I wonder when was the last time Jack touched the shirts...'n I think...he didn't toss them...

once again..Gadzu...am thrilled for you....hugs from Oz

[alma]

I wasn't losing my mind, I was waking up from a deep sleep, I was leaving a dark, souless place devoid of emotion or love. BBM had stirred my soul so much that I found a strength, I found enough strength to first come out to good friend, then my sister, then my mother all of whom were very accepting and supportive and loving, and I will continue to come out because I can no longer live a lie.

I have learned that I am a creation of a higher power and I wasn't put on this Earth to feel dirty or negative about myself, I was put on this earth to share my love, to be honest with myself and others who share my life. I now know I have so much love to give, so much to catch up on and so much to share, my life will now be so much richer.

I have been born again, thank you BBM.

Makes me want to launch into a gospel version of "Water Walking Jesus"!! amen and amen.

Welcome. Thanks for sharing your very real self with us.

[south_wind]

I'm still not sure what impact this movie has had on me.  Of course, it made me almost unbearably sad; I think of the characters all the time.  I fell in love with them and the actors.

But the overall impact is a mystery.

I don't need to change my life. I don't need to change my beliefs or my behavior towards anyone.

So it's all there, their love and tragedy, in an endless loop in my head.  It's very frustrating.  If only there had been a few more scenes of them being happy or together in the movie.  I suppose that's the beauty of it - that their "not enough time" is also our not enough time.

Just rambling....

[Italian_Dude]

It made me more comfortable with who I am and it made me REALLY sad.. seeing how Ennis & Jacked loved each other so much but it was doomed from the start because of society, ughhh!! its so sad I love this movie so much!

[Lizandre]

Forgive me, but my english isn't good enough to convey complex emotions and ideas, so I'll stick with French. Maybe some Québécois will understand. Another BBM mystery for the rest of you. Let me say that I am an Ennis, that I met my Jack at 25. But not a loving Jack, a predatory Jack. I returned to my Ennis state of mind until I saw the movie...

D'aussi loin que ma mémoire remonte, j'ai toujours été assez solitaire, ayant peu d'amis, mais de bons amis. Enfant et adolescent, je ne m'intéressais pas à ce à quoi sont censés s'intéresser ceux de mon âge. Mais j'étais un élève brillant et je trouvais dans les choses intellectuelles un accomplissement satisfaisant. Faut-il le préciser, j'étais étranger à mon corps et à mes émotions.

Je savais parfaitement quelles étaient mes attirances, mais je ne les acceptais pas. C'est que je n'avais planifié les choses de cette façon. J'étais résolu par un effort de volonté à remettre les choses dans le bon sens...

Jusqu'à 22-23 ans, j'ai eu des petites amies épisodiques. Au début pour la galerie (la famille, les amis), puis ensuite en espérant qu'il y en aurait une avec qui "ça collerait". Mais à chaque fois, cela finissait dans les pleurs et les coeurs brisés. Ou le désir physique était totalement absent, et je ne pouvais pas concrétiser, ou lorsque le physique voulait bien suivre, la copine se rendait compte que mon investissement émotionnel était pour le moins défaillant.

Alors j'ai décidé d'arrêter cette masquarade, je me dégoûtais de me servir ainsi de jeunes femmes comme objets. J'entrepris alors un travail de réappropriation de mon corps et de mes sentiments. Sortir, danser, s'amuser... J'en profitais pour m'ouvrir officiellement à ma famille, leur demandant de m'accepter sans question pour m'aider moi-même à m'accepter. Il m'ont donné leur amour inconditionnel.

A 25 ans, enfin prêt, je me suis lancé. Petites annonces, sorties dans le milieur gay parisien. Une terrible épreuve, la dimension "supermarché de la chair" faisait revenir l'Ennis en moi. Mais j'ai rapidement rencontré mon Jack. Tout me plaisait en lui, et si j'avais jamais rêver de l'homme idéal, il en était l'image. Quelques rendez-vous, puis il m'invite chez lui. Le cauchemar. Niveau sexualité, j'étais un adolescent immature, mais il ne l'avait compris ou ne l'avait entendu. J'en suis ressorti humilié, cassé, le sentiment affreux d'avoir été ce bout de chair, ce sentiment qui me rendait quasiment impossible la fréquentation du milieu homo commercial - bar, saunas...

J'ai reconstruit mes murailles et mes défenses. Mais pas entièrement, mes sentiments sont là et avec eux la souffrance et la frustration. Vous connaissez la chanson de Simon & Garfunkel : I am a rock, I am an Island. Carrière, réussite profesionnelle, plus grand appartement.

Mais voilà, ces 6 derniers mois, des événements bouleversent ma vie. Mon meilleur ami, depuis le collège, meurt d'une leucémie. Il était l'incarnation de la vie pour moi, un homme au moins tous les jours, et de préférence pas le même. Nous étions si différents mais si complices. Des revers professionnels graves, puis des succès à nouveau.

Ainsi, avant d'aller voir BBM, les choses bouillonnaient en moi. Perte des kilos en trop, organisation de mon départ de la folie de la région parisienne, réexamen de mes priorités. Et puis BBM vendredi dernier, par hasard, pour accompagner ma mère qui ne serait pas allé le voir sinon avec mon père.

LE jour même, rien. Le lendemain, rien encore. Me connaissant, quelque chose était anormal. J'avais aimé le film, mais sans qu'il n'éveille de sentiments forts en moi. Or, dans l'art, je n'aime que les sentiments, pas l'esthétique.

Mais dimanche, c'est la débâcle. J'ai pleuré toute la journée. J'ai découvert ce forum. Je vois demain le film pour la troisème fois. Le bouillonnement s'amplifie, je crois que je vais exploser. Mes murailles et mes défenses s'effondrent, j'ai envie de vivre ma préférence. Enfin.